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Author Topic: jug choking tool?  (Read 11153 times)

muzzleloader51

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jug choking tool?
« on: March 20, 2009, 02:51:52 AM »
I have read a good bit about jug choking and the work of M V Starr and know that several builders are jug choking  ML shotguns today, but does anyone have plans or examples of the tools to do jug choking with?  I would like to build one myself to jug choke a great old db Belgian 16 ga.  Bill Pratt 
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George F.

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 03:14:23 AM »
 My understanding about a choke is that the muzzle is reduced in diameter. Unless you thread the muzzle and screw on a choke I don't know how you are going to reduce the diameter after the bore has been bored. Unless, you rebore the barrel to a larger caliber, except the last few inches. Just my empty head talking,  ...Geo.
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brobb

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 04:01:52 AM »
Here is a simple jug choking tool from the ALR archives.
http://americanlongrifles.org/old_board/index.php?topic=875.0
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MRW

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 04:46:36 AM »
I did mine on a lathe but the barrel ws 1" diam straight round so chucking it up ws no problem it went from a cylinder pattern to somewhere between a  tight improved cylinder/loose modified pattern. I have heard of guys using a brake cylinder home and getting pretty good results. My only advice is  open it up a little and shoot it and keep repeating this as yuo go we found that  when it decided to tighten the pattern it went from doing nothing to right there all of a sudden i see where a person could go to far to fast if you don't check patterns as you go.
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Offline BillPac

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 02:40:05 PM »
In the original Gunsmith Kinks by Brownells there is a description of how to make the tool and do the work I believe.  I don't have the book in front of me to check.
BillP
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Offline Tom Moore

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 05:33:06 PM »
I just bought an original 16ga jug choking tool at the Prairie States Longrifle Show. I'm out of town for a couple of days but I'll try to get some pictures up when I get back. I didn't even know what I had when I bought it but it was so cool... well, you know the rest!  ;D -Tom
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 05:35:31 PM by Tom Moore »
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Offline Robby

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 07:20:59 PM »
I'm not sure if I completely understand the process of jug choking. If it is creating an enlargement in the bore diameter just short of the muzzle. Why couldn't the "shotgun barrel hone" tool advertised in the Brownells catalog be used? It seems if you were careful, you could do the same job as a jug choke reamer, and be a lot less likely to chatter. If I am correct in my thinking, how far down from the muzzle does it start and stop, and how far over the existing bore does one go? Maybe I'm over simplifying things, what would be the pitfalls?
  If you don't have a catalog, the tool looks like a smaller version of a tool used sometimes to hone the cylinders in engine blocks.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 10:51:27 PM by Robby »
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molon labe
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Offline BillPac

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 12:40:26 AM »
Gunsmith Kinks pg 152 has a 5 page explaniation written by V.M.Starr on his process to produce jug chokes.  There are 4 drawings to help explain his tooling and methods.
BillP
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Offline Robby

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 03:40:32 AM »
Bill, I don't have that book. Is there any way you could sketch it out and post a picture, or relate his explanation.
    Robby
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molon labe
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 09:16:55 AM »
Jug choking can be done on the larger bores with a brake cylinder hone. You can get one at the local auto parts store.  For small bores you will have to make a tool out of a wooden dowel. Cut a rectangular slot in the dowel for a small stone to set in. A small flat spring goes under the stone in the slot. The hones can be run with an electric drill. Keep lots of light weight oil on them.  No charge.
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Offline Robby

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 03:52:12 PM »
Well, I game, I'm going to do this myself. Thanks for the information. One more thing, dimensions(?), how far below the muzzle does it start and stop, and how far beyond the existing bore diameter do take it for different chokes, mod., full, etc.. Thanks!
   Robby
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molon labe
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. A. Lincoln

northmn

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 06:01:51 PM »
Roundball.  Are you sure about the dimensions?  The .025 sounds right for full in a 20 ga. as the smaller the gauge the less the constriction.  A 12 is about .032-.035 (they used to be about .04)  .015 is about a Modified or Skeet out in a 12.  Should be a modified in a 20.  12's run about a .08 or so in a 12.  Jugs chokes could be different so I am asking.

DP
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 04:08:23 PM »
Not knowing much about jug chokes, but I would be concerned about a couple of things:

1) if you are working an original barrel, which are usually thin-walled to begin with, and you take off .025 of the wall, you might be getting mighty thin out there.

2) old barrel steel or iron may not have the rupture strength, so thinning the wall may lead to failure.
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Offline Tom Moore

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 06:55:02 PM »
OK. Here are some pics of my jug choking tool. It is marked: J.W. Batcheller, St. Joseph, MO PAT 16 GA. One blade is marked 33 R 10 and the other is marked 44 R 10. There is an adjustment screw on the back that sets how close the blades can close together. The big screw on the end sets how far apart the blades are set to cut. One of the blade pivot screws is missing. Hope this helps. -Tom






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Offline Robby

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2009, 08:08:35 PM »
Tom, Thanks for the pictures. I'm not sure, but, it appears to me that the tool would be rotated from the breech, so that the blade spreading screw could be adjusted from the muzzle, and also collapsed, for removal.  Yes(?), either way it is a pretty neat devise.
Robby
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molon labe
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Offline Tom Moore

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2009, 08:58:32 PM »
Robby: Yes, I'm sure you're right. Turn from the breach and adjust from the muzzle. The choke area would be about 1/2 inch in from the muzzle so it would be easy to set and adjust the tool from there. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but a jug choke would be much easier to load from the muzzle than a standard choke because the barrel is the same diameter all the way down (except wider at the choke of course). No narrow areas to hang up the wad etc. -Tom
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muzzleloader51

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2009, 07:45:19 PM »
Thanks so much for the information.  Wouldn't it be great if a gunsmith who is skilled in jug choking would share info on the subject.  Concerning the Belgium 16 ga I want to jug choke, it is a plain old gun but in good safe working order.  It is heavy with very thick barrels, so I am not worried about getting too thin.  Any other info on the subject would be appreciated.  Bill Pratt
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doug

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Re: jug choking tool?
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2009, 08:25:42 PM »
      There is a description of jug chokes in "the American Shotgun" author I think is Ralph Walker.  If my memory is correct, the enlarged portion ends about 1 1/2" from the muzzle. 

     Relative to using a brake hone, I think you are going to find that it takes an awful lot of honing to remove .012" of metal (.024" total) from a barrel wall.  I think you would be much farther ahead to make up a reamer similar to the antique one shown above.

cheers Doug
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