Value of a Model 1816 musket.... errr, I mean "rifled-musket"

[bones92]

What is the value of a Model 1816, made at Springfield in 1825, converted to percussion via the Belgian alteration (nipple added to barrel).

Overall condition is quite decent.  Has not been "cleaned up" or "restored".  Action seems to work just fine.   Complete except for rod.  Wood is quite nice (dark from age, like you'd expect to see).  A couple minor splits behind the action screws but not bad.

Seller asking $600, maybe a bit negotiable.


Good deal?   What's a ballpark range?

[Dennis Glazener]

Who knows without seeing and handling. I would say $600 or a little less if you can talk him down Seriously the price would depend on condition and how bad a buyer wants it and how eager a seller is to let it go. Sounds reasonable to me.
Dennis

[GrampaJack]

I agree with Dennis. Remember, if you want an original rod for it you will spend at least $100 plus. A point to make in your negotiations. Move each barrel band forward a bit to check for a joint hidden under there to make sure the forestock has not been replaced or repaired.  Jack

[T*O*F]

Has not been "cleaned up" or "restored".

If that is true, then the cartouches should still be visible in the wood.  They are part of what makes a gun more desirable.  Dicker him down as much as you can and then buy it.

[bones92]

I should have been more clear.  The seller is asking my opinion. I cannot afford something like this , and it's a bit out of my area of knowledge.  He did confirm that it has the original rod and there are faint stamps in the left side of the wrist.

[longrifle]

It would be worth $500 - $600 in good condition.

[T*O*F]

I should have been more clear.  The seller is asking my opinion.

That's a different story.  We can't really judge anything from your description without pictures.  If its in good condition, has a good bore, and is shootable, then musket shooter's who compete in that class would pay much more for it.  Condition is everything.  Value is speculative without a personal inspection by a knowledgeable person.  With a good bore, one might offer it at $1200 and dicker down.

[eddillon]

I agree with T*O*F.

[bones92]

I was able to look at it and get some photos.  It seems to be in fairly good shape.  I'm not at home where I can swab the bore and drop a light down it, but it doesn't look terribly bad from what I can see (looks dry but fairly smooth).  The wood really is beautiful, with that deep reddish finish covered by almost 200 years of being handled.

The guy doesn't know much about it, and even less about computers.  So, me being the "gun expert" (which is not the case in the slightest), I was asked as a favor to help him out.   I'm sure many of you get asked to do the same.

Looking at the NRA guidelines, I'd say it is about Good condition.  The pitting on the outside of the breech is prominent, though the nipple looks entirely functional.  One can tell it has been fired quite a bit.

[bones92]

One thing I forgot to mention...  Having handled relatively few muskets from this era, I am surprised at how handy this feels.  It's not at all heavy or burdensome, compared to what a PA/KY rifle from the same era would weigh.  I used to always look at RevWar paintings of troops carrying their muskets, and I assumed these were heavy pieces, but now I have a better idea of what they probably felt like.

Technical question... were these barrels contoured somewhat uniformly from breech to muzzle?  It's hard to say looking at it without taking the barrel out for measuring.  One would think the barrel is very fragile looking at the thin walls of the muzzle, but I surmise that the metal even at the front band is somewhat thicker than what I see at the muzzle.

[vtbuck223]

Some of these muskets were really well made. Having been chosen for an arsenal conversion...means that it was one of the better ones at that time.  The cracks in the wood are a big issue with this one however...if we are talking about condition and price. The pitting also....but to a lesser degree. I owned and sold one recently....in much better shape...for less than $600.

[longrifle]

It is not a bad looking musket, as mentioned above the crack in the stock is a big issue. Pitting on the breech and around the nipple shows it has been fired a good bit. It looks to be in pretty good shape otherwise. I would say less than 500.

[JCKelly]

I would hesitate to shoot it, as my battered ancient body has acquired a certain sentimental value to me.

These conversions were done by plugging up the old touch hole

Plugging.

Not welding, just driving in a pin. Possibly tapered, but just a pin. I have one in un-issued condition that shows this clearly. Lovely condition.

As far as possible damage to your antique, it was common for that nipple to break off. Civil War recruits might go to some lengths not to be armed by these things.

Pedersoli makes a replica, not so authentic perhaps but will likely enable you to maintain bodily integrity.

[bones92]

Thanks, gents.   This isn't mine, but I will probably help out the owner and list it for him.  This gives me a general idea of things.

It's a neat musket, for sure.  The odds of Mexican-American War service are probably low, but it's probably a fair bet that it served in some capacity in the Civil War.

[longrifle]

It is fairly common to see the stock cracked in that area.

[bones92]

It seems that this was converted to a rifled-musket (ostensibly when converted to percussion).  The bore shows a prominent three-groove rifling.

Also, there is something lightly inscribed into the side of the buttstock.  It's so faint, I can't really read it.  

[bones92]

 Is there any particularly good links on these conversions?  I've seen mention of the rifling conversions, but nothing specific.  Were most of these rifled, or relatively few?

[JV Puleo]

There is noting on the internet that is reliable (this is true for most antique gun subjects). The best, and as far as I know the only serious study of the conversion program is in the 2nd volume of Pete Schmidt's United States Military Flintlocks and their Bayonets.

Here is a link:
http://gunandswordcollector.com/Templates/book%20pages/schmidt_flint_later.html

Personally, I found it the most interesting part of the book.

[D. Buck Stopshere]

"bones92" brought the converted rifled-musket to the Dixie Gun and Knife Classic this past weekend in Raleigh NC, and I can say without a doubt, the value is below $500. More like $400-$450 to the inspecting buyer. The arm was inspected by Terry Kirkpatrick of VA, who shares tables with me at that show.

[bones92]

I appreciated Terry's insights.  I did end up buying it.  I'm debating what to do with it, however.

[edwardc]

Bones92


what  to do  with  it ??

enjoy  the heck out of it

i have  one in slightly better shape  same conversion to the nipple etc 

mine was bought at a local yard sale  for $ 50.00  from a women who's husband must have been a serious mad man or just on the stupid side
he was going to drill the stock and barrel and run lamp wire and turn it into a chairside floor lamp.

she claimed he got the idea from Bass pro shops  and there check stand lights made out of fake fishing poles. imho  i feel some folks should never be allowed  to use power tools
 

any way mine is a 1816  musket dated 1842   and i am hoping that i can get a replacement barrel  for shooting and  the original barrel  for later when i display  it
in a cabin i am rebuilding

and  keep  your eyes open  these things seem  to attract others 

i now have a harpers ferry  musket  same kind of deal  yard sale purchase  for $ 100.00
lock dated 1844  but a dead ringer for the Springfield

yard sales  can yield some interesting things  and  or leads  to other guns



 

[longrifle]

While they appear to be heavy, long and cumbersome, they shoulder very well.