regulated screws

[dogcatcher]

I think the regulated screws will also have to do with the level of craftsman the maker is.  I worked with a guy that was 75 in 1970.  He regulated the screws on his work, and taught me to pay attention to the little details, and one of them was the regulated screws. 

I can't remember what he called it, but it was not "regulated", it was some other name.  I want to say he called it "facing", but my quick research did not match anything at facings.  The closest I came to anything was about electricians matching their screw heads.

[Keithbatt]

I think the regulated screws will also have to do with the level of craftsman the maker is.  I worked with a guy that was 75 in 1970.  He regulated the screws on his work, and taught me to pay attention to the little details, and one of them was the regulated screws. 

I can't remember what he called it, but it was not "regulated", it was some other name.  I want to say he called it "facing", but my quick research did not match anything at facings.  The closest I came to anything was about electricians matching their screw heads.

In addition to regulating, terms I've seen include "clocking" or "timing."  HC or not, my tendency is to regulate, clock, time or just line up the screw heads because it looks better to me and perhaps as a result of some compulsion towards neatness and order, it would bother me to have them not regulated.

Keith

[greybeard]

Tang bolts and but plate screws are best regulated.  To my eye regulated screws look too stark on a patch box. Look better if they are random . Probably just me!!
        Bob

[Bob Roller]

I think the regulated screws will also have to do with the level of craftsman the maker is.  I worked with a guy that was 75 in 1970.  He regulated the screws on his work, and taught me to pay attention to the little details, and one of them was the regulated screws. 

I can't remember what he called it, but it was not "regulated", it was some other name.  I want to say he called it "facing", but my quick research did not match anything at facings.  The closest I came to anything was about electricians matching their screw heads.

I have seen fine English caplocks with the screw slots all oriented the same.I have done this but there is no mechanical reason for it.ONCE it happened without my trying but once in 50+ years might be expected.

Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

I have a H. Holland 13 ga. perc. side x side shotgun with all the screws timed-regulated. The gun was made in 1861. I am sure that there are exceptions to all this as I have said before never say never and never say always.

[Bob Roller]

My 151 year old rigby rifle has all of the screws regulated, including the escutcheon screws.  The top butt plate screw was out of alignment, but my friend Jim W. took care of that and it is now regulated.

Like our friend from across the pond indicated the Irish and English guns have regulated screws.



Fleener

Hi Snapper,
Then why does my original 1760-1770s English fowler not have regulated screws?  It is because, that detail may have become important on higher-end English guns during the mid to late 19th century but was not very important during earlier periods.  If you look through Neal and Back's book (Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790) you will not find a single high-end or average gun with side lock screws lined up with the barrel.  The only screw they seem to have cared about was the barrel tang bolt.

dave

The top of the line English guns had oriented screws as a common feature.The rest not so much.

Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi,
Snapper, I agree with you about many later high-quality English and Irish guns.  With respect to earlier times (18th century), if you look at books like Neal and Back's Great British Gunmaker series, you often find that the barrel tang screws are aligned with the bore.  However, most of those pictured have hooked breeches and on those the tang screw is almost never removed.  However, most of the side bolts are not aligned and of course they would be removed frequently to clean the lock after shooting.  The photos include examples from the finest gunmakers working in England at the time so screw alignment was not necessarily a high-end versus low-end phenomena.  When examining lower quality guns and military firearms on which the barrel tang is attached to the breech plug, some screws are aligned and many are not.  I love these discussions but sometimes it seems we lump a lot of time together as simply "back then".  A Holland & Holland sporting gun made in 1861 is the product of a very different time than a William Bailes gun made in 1761.  Having said that, however, if any of you have a copy "Great British Gunmakers: Messrs Griffin & Tow and W. Bailes" look at the Bailes' gun on page 164.  He created a sideplate with silver wire including wire screw heads, which are aligned with the bore.  Clearly, the ideal was alignment but in practice, I suspect they did not worry overly about alignment for any screws likely to be removed over time.   

dave   

[hammer]

Again, in my opinion it must come back to how the screws are made.  If modern/recent machine made, just taken out of a box and screwed in place then slot alignment is necessarily a matter of luck unless the screw is overtightened of left slightly loose.
In the more distant past, still today for quality guns, the screws/nails/pins are made with the head left thick and a temporary slot made for test fitting.  Once everything is correct the screw/nail/pin is tightened down, the head is marked for slot alignment, filed down and the final slot cut to that alignment.    After final fitting the screw head is then filed flush with the surrounding metal.   Peening the head into the countersink part way through can leave the edge of the head barely visible on the finished work.   Quick work for an experienced craftsman.
If the screw is overworked by frequent removal then I can see it eventually loosing its precise alignment.  But it would originally have been aligned.   Professional pride as well as for looks.

[Mark Elliott]

To expand on my previous answer, I don't usually regulate my screw slots.   The exception is a particularly fancy gun.   If it is to be highly carved and engraved, and particularly if it is to be finished as new, then I will regulate all the screws.    This is just my practice given what I have been told by those more knowledgeable than myself  and what I have observed on antique longrifles.   

[Jim Kibler]

I agree with those who have stressed the importance of location and time period.  As to English guns, there is a big difference in the degree of anal retentivity from earlier 17th or 18th century guns to those made in the late flint or percussion period.  Seems that the general knowledge and focus of many English collectors or students is the fussy 19th century stuff.

[Joe S.]

My two cents,if I'm paying top dollar for somebody to build me rifle and its known that originals had the screws regulated they better be regulated.If I'm paying top dollar for a modern gun I would think the screws should be regulated.My build,my first I'm going to give it shot to aleast get the tang and butt screws regulated.They where supposed to have been on originals and one fellow posted his pics on here and was called out on it.

[snapper]

The late Don Brown sold Alexander Henry ML English sporting rifle kits with the screws that you cut the slots after the rifle was built.

Fleener