Author Topic: Correct lock for a Hawken?  (Read 20115 times)

Offline hanshi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5328
  • My passion is longrifles!
    • martialartsusa.com
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2016, 11:24:11 PM »
The rough work on the lock plate jumped right out the first time I looked at the pic.  Just supposing but it looks like an owner/duffer job to me.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Offline Joe S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1989
  • the other Joe S.
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2016, 11:28:24 PM »
I still don't understand the arguments over there can't be or never was flint hawken rifles.There are original half stocked plains rifles that are flint built by other folks so why not the hawken brothers,both or just Sam?Sooner or later one will surface.

Offline okieboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2016, 08:07:54 AM »
 Joe, I don't think anyone doubts that there were flintlocks built by the Hawken shop, but with only one possible example, the fullstock in the Smithsonian, there is reasonable speculation as to the details of what they looked like.
 Please post some photos of these other half stocked plains rifles that are flint built by other folks that you know of. I don't think any of the half stock flint rifles that turned up in the recent historical locks discussion were what is generally called a plains rifle.
 The time the host allows me on the site is so short that it is hard for me to do much checking. Joe, I don't think anyone doubts that there were flintlocks built by the Hawken shop, but with only one possible example, the fullstock in the Smithsonian, there is reasonable speculation as to the details of what they looked like.
 Please post some photos of these other half stocked plains rifles that are flint built by other folks that you know of. I don't think any of the half stock flint rifles that turned up in the recent historical locks discussion were what is generally called a plains rifle.
 The time the host allows me on the site is so short that it is hard for me to do much checking. Joe, I don't think anyone doubts that there were flintlocks built by the Hawken shop, but with only one possible example, the fullstock in the Smithsonian, there is reasonable speculation as to the details of what they looked like.
 Please post some photos of these other half stocked plains rifles that are flint built by other folks that you know of. I don't think any of the half stock flint rifles that turned up in the recent historical locks discussion were what is generally called a plains rifle.
 The time the host allows me on the site is so short that it is hard for me to do much checking.
Okieboy

Offline Joe S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1989
  • the other Joe S.
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2016, 05:00:48 PM »
the ruxton museum has a J Henry flint(original)plains rifle.Ruxton museum.org will give you the details.Captchee posted some pics of a Gustav Erickson (?) flint plains rifle here.Sorry I haven't figured out how to take pictures from websites to here yet but there are some examples and I have seen others.Perhaps one of our fellow members can help you out.Maybe some in the library too.

Boompa

  • Guest
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2016, 07:03:40 PM »
  Early writings from Gen Ashley and Zenas Leonard show without doubt that their Hawkens were flintlocks.  Logically at least a few half stock guns were built using flints. Many simply preferred the flintlock. A good source of Hawken history and info is "The Hawken It's Place In History" by C Hanson.

Offline okieboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2016, 04:55:51 AM »
 First, I'm sorry for my tardiness, I haven't been able to connect to the site.
 Thank you Joe S. for the Ruxton connection. That fills the bill for a late style half stock rifle originally made in flint better I think than anything that has been referenced to me before.
 Still the article states: "A flint lock on an American half stock plains rifle is definitely a throwback." and
"I don’t expect collectors will find many other original, flintlock, halfstock plains rifles out there. I sure wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for somebody to turn up an original flint, half stock Hawken. This flintlock Henry halfstock may very well be one of a kind, or one of very few. That makes it a pretty rare piece."
 That sums up my feelings, yes there were a few late half stock flintlock guns made, but they were exceptions, not common.

 Boompa, no one doubts that there were flintlock Hawken rifles, the doubt is about flintlock halfstock Hawkens. 
"Logically at least a few half stock guns were built using flints. Many simply preferred the flintlock."
 I have had it explained to me by someone with unquestionable credentials, that we can extrapolate history by logic when we lack hard evidence. So, since we know that the Hawken shop would build anything a customer would pay for, we know they built rifles, we know that there were telescopes and that they knew about them, we can logically ask "What is the right telescope to put on a half stock Hawken flintlock?" See where logic can take us? :o
 But seriously, your original question was what would be a good lock choice and Joe S. has posted us a connection to what is probably a very good example of the kind of lock that would really fill the bill and a good look at an original rifle (even though not Hawken) appropriate to the time period.
Okieboy

Offline Clark Badgett

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2248
  • Oklahoma
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2016, 07:16:43 AM »
The Buffalo Bill Center Has this rifle that has a converted lock on it, barrel is marked S Hawken, St Louis. But it looks like it was made as percussion but from an older flint lock.
http://collections.centerofthewest.org/treasures/view/firearm_rifle_s_hawken_full_stock
The close up shot of the lock has been switched with this J&S Hawken fullstock
http://collections.centerofthewest.org/treasures/view/firearm_rifle_j_s_hawken_st_louis_mo_58_8_grooves_not_serially_
Psalms 144

Offline okieboy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
Re: Correct lock for a Hawken?
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2016, 08:57:41 AM »
 The rifle with the patchbox is a grand old gun.
 Does the rifle without a patchbox look on the butt to have been varnished or shellacked?
 They also have the remains of a halfstock Leman trade rifle.
 I like how their photography works.
Okieboy