Nosecaps

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

This discrepancy in processing information might simply be the result of our interaction via this medium.  If we were sitting around a kitchen table, or a campfire, I'll bet the flavour would be different.

[Mike Brooks]

I'd say thanks for proving my point, but I'm guessing I'd have prepare for another 6,000 word response. I need more coffee for that.

All I will say that some others warned me about this site, saying there are multi-posters on there that are not really interested in sharing knowledge or promoting building, but are more interested in trying to make themselves look good at the expense of others.

I told them, nah. Couldn't be.

I asked a question about nosecaps and got lectured and condescended to on everything I don't know....

There you go.




Rich

Well there you go, glad I took all the time I did to try and help you out. There are other places you can go where you'll only hear what you want to, not so upsetting there.... After all of my time I get accused of not being willing to share my knowledge and not promoting gunbuilding.

You know....what really burns my butt is being called a multi poster.
   

[bob in the woods]

Exactly, Taylor.  The correct answer , re nose caps is.....use one.  As to being warned about this site ?
If you are one of those who are looking for a "go ahead " re preconceived , but incorrect notions about these guns, this site will be frustrating and disappointing.
Mike- I think you need to start charging $ for your advise /knowledge.  That given for free is often not valued

[Mike Brooks]

Exactly, Taylor.  The correct answer , re nose caps is.....use one.  As to being warned about this site ?
If you are one of those who are looking for a "go ahead " re preconceived , but incorrect notions about these guns, this site will be frustrating and disappointing.
Mike- I think you need to start charging $ for your advise /knowledge.  That given for free is often not valued

We're having a blizzard here in Iowa today, only reason I took the time to try and educate to this degree. Unfortunately it was all wasted on the OP, but others may have learned something....never make or even say FAT GUN.

Or, maybe everyone found all of this very boring, hard to tell.

[Hungry Horse]

 The best example I can give on the gigantic amount of extra wood most modern  longrifles have on them is best illustrated by a kit gun I was given. It had been "carved" with a  Dremel. I took all the carving down, and low and behold it turned out to be just the right amount of wood removal.

     Hungry Horse

[b bogart]

I think more than will admit learn from these exchanges. Those with tender feelings or a desire for agreement have a problem learning. Prtoblem with sugar coating advice is that it gets misconstrued. If I am asked or if I ask for advice/assistance, a blunt straight forward answer is the best fit.

As for those Iowa blizzards, I do NOT miss them at all. Stay warm Mike!

[smallpatch]

Gentlemen, let me try to settle this.
Archie, you are welcome here, BUT, you are the new comer.  You are among professionals and beginners alike.  If you ask a question, expect an answer.  Possibly NOT one you want.  If your mind is made up before you start, there's no reason to ask.  Some will be good answers from experts (I.e. Mike Brooks), some will be misguided answers  from other beginners
You have to sort out which is which. 
Once you've been around here for a while, you'll know who is who.

So, the question is:  do you just want people to agree with you, or advice from expert in an area that you are just getting started in?

[ricktull]

Just do it the way YOU like it!!! Whats the worst that could happen?

[rich pierce]

I'd say thanks for proving my point, but I'm guessing I'd have prepare for another 6,000 word response. I need more coffee for that.

All I will say that some others warned me about this site, saying there are multi-posters on there that are not really interested in sharing knowledge or promoting building, but are more interested in trying to make themselves look good at the expense of others. 

I told them, nah. Couldn't be.

I asked a question about nosecaps and got lectured and condescended to on everything I don't know....

There you go.

Rich

Hey Rich, welcome to the ALR.  I guess the flavor here is unique.  A lot of us would welcome getting lectured on things we don't know.  In fact that is one of our favorite activities.  We often go to events like Dixon's Gunmaker's Fair or even take classes to get lectured on things we don't know.  The benefit here is it's free and we don't even have to travel to get the advice.

[Frank]

We're having a blizzard here in Iowa today, only reason I took the time to try and educate to this degree. Unfortunately it was all wasted on the OP, but others may have learned something....never make or even say FAT GUN.

Or, maybe everyone found all of this very boring, hard to tell.

Mike, I for one appreciate all of your posts and thank you the sound advise you always provide. Post away my friend and don't ever stop as I have much to learn.

[Joe S.]

And I thought hawken rifles brought on a spirted debate.My rifles not fat,she's just big boned

[Pete G.]

I for one, appreciate the sharing of knowledge about the Jaeger. There is not a whole lot information about these early guns as opposed to the later.

I also appreciate Mike's direct, no BS style. I have made a couple of remarks on this forum that were corrected by some that I consider masters at this, or at least way ahead of most that are in this game. Not many other places where you can get honest opinion and the benefit of others experience.

As Will Rogers once said, there are three types of learning:


Those who learn from reading.
Those who learn from others' experience.
And those who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.
 

[Long John]

Rich,

Welcome to ALR.  There are a lot of "old guys", myself included, here and many have hard-won opinions.

Build the rifle you want!  So what rifle do your want?  Jaeger guns were NOT chubby.  Like Mike has so eloquently stated they were built around robust components.

I would take issue with the notion that a nose cap is merely decorative.  Many of my friends are historical trekkers and spent weeks in the woods recreating the life of the 18th century.  Rifles take a bit of a beating on a trek!  One of my friends came back with a rifle whose stock was split from the muzzle down to the entry pipe as a result of a fall where his rifle hit a log mashing the ramrod into the stock, toward the barrel.  The rifle had been built without a fore-end cap.  I was able to repair the stock with carbon fiber and glue and made a fore-end cap to stabilize the stock.  The rifle is still going strong 10 years later.  I had a similar repair to do on a fowler.  It, too got a fore-end cap.  When you look at a fore-stock it has a thin web of wood, running along the grain, between ramrod groove and barrel with numerous holes through it.  It is very weak without a fore-end cap.  We don't know how many original rifles were broken along the fore stock and had to be restocked.  But my experience suggests quite a few.

Likewise for toe-plates, they strengthen the toe of the butt.  I'm just a hobby builder but I have repaired 5 different broken stocks, one twice due to two separate falls, due to falls which chipped out the toe of the butt-stock.  All were guns without a toe-plates.  The screw that holds the toe plate on strengthens the stock immensely in that inherently weak area.

So, what you incorporate into your rifle gun should be governed by how you intend to use it.

Best Regards,

John Cholin

[JCurtiss]

I think we've lost Archie.

[David Rase]

I am a little bit late to the party but my interpretation of the word "transitional" as it applies to Colonial Longrifles has always been:
Transitional = Fantasy   
David

[Mike Brooks]

I think we've lost Archie.

It was a short visit.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Learning is not compulsory........... but neither is survival!!    

[oldtravler61]

Well I am new to this site. An have only built a few scratch built guns. An way to many kit guns. But what I really don't like is when US newbies ask a question to try an learn an  some people bash them. We are not perfect nor do we have a historical degree . But we do have an interest to learn. But when you ridicule the newbies an push them away. What really have you accomplished. I'm quite sure some of you didn't know everything at first either.  An the words chubby or thick are that. Just terms the way the man described his thoughts. I don't think he meant any offence. So kick back lighten up an let's enjoy what we all like to do.

[Mike Brooks]

But what I really don't like is when US newbies ask a question to try an learn an  some people bash them.

I was really hoping this would go away. The OP didn't want to learn, he just wanted to hear only the truth as he understood it which unfortunately wasn't correct. . He didn't hear what he wanted to so he left. I'm sure he's much happier in his own reality.

[rich pierce]

No doubt this forum is different from other muzzleloading forums.  It is focused and is about custom work and using, for the most part, period techniques.  Most forums have some people with lots of expertise. We have a lot of real experts.  I've been studying flintlocks for 40 years and am still learning a lot.  Some of the discussions here are like having a dream team of experts discussing something you always wanted to know more about.

I guess the rub is that some who post their questions or work, and some responders, mostly want an encouraging and non-offensive discussion.  Others who post questions or their work want honest informed (and often diverse) answers to the question or critiques of their work.  People here are passionate about the craft. 

I think just about everyone here tries to be honest and civil (we all have our days!).  But folks won't mostly get attaboys unless the work or the documented knowledge is of fine quality.

[bob in the woods]

I have got to say that I'm really sick of this ;  i.e. complaining about " bashing " !!!    Re-read the posts .
There was no bashing or anything close to it.  There was information intended to steer someone in the right direction.  The original post went into some detail listing a # of assumptions etc and did mention a somewhat ambiguous desire for historical correctness. It was not a simple question of " should I use a nose cap or not ? "
As I mentioned in a previous post, I firmly believe that imfo given freely is not valued by most folks.

[ken]

So was there a difference in the length in nose caps from early guns to the later ones. I thought the early had short and later had longer

[Mike Brooks]

Did we actually say anything about nose caps?.......

[b bogart]

I like them!  Open on the muzzle end ! There chatter about fore end caps.