Author Topic: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight  (Read 6108 times)

Offline okieboy

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Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« on: November 26, 2015, 06:17:06 PM »
 Just saw Mr. Kibler's rifle with the flip up sight on the Contemporary Blog. I like the sight and like the idea of flip up sights. I know that these were used on German guns and English guns, so I am expecting that some were used on American guns.
 If you are reading Jim, was this based off of a specific example or just fit the bill for this specific gun?
 It is neat, and I suspect it is trickier to make neatly than it looks.
Okieboy

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 10:46:36 PM »
This is in no way presuming to answer your question to Jim, but I have seen very few original longrifles with this feature.  But one that I am aware of is a Jacob Kuntz rifle, presently enshrined in the MET in NY.  It's a neat bit of filing, and I just had to copy it for my own Kuntz version.  Here's a picture of that one...







I have no idea where that second sight might zero - I've never used it - but I suspect out past two hundred yards.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 10:50:08 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
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Offline okieboy

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2015, 11:33:19 PM »
 If you offer filing lessons, please sign me up! :)
Okieboy

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2015, 02:46:02 AM »
My thought exacly. Oakieboy. Tim

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2015, 05:19:32 AM »
 Taylor.
  Did you chisel part of that sight base?
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Offline Jim Kibler

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2015, 07:32:34 PM »
Just saw Mr. Kibler's rifle with the flip up sight on the Contemporary Blog. I like the sight and like the idea of flip up sights. I know that these were used on German guns and English guns, so I am expecting that some were used on American guns.
 If you are reading Jim, was this based off of a specific example or just fit the bill for this specific gun?
 It is neat, and I suspect it is trickier to make neatly than it looks.

Glad you like the sight.  They are a pain to make.  As to American originals with this feature, there aren't too many.  The brass barreled rifle was set up this way.  Another unpublished rifle Wallace owned a few years ago had this set-up and this is where my general design came from. 

Interesting that the Kuntz also has this feature.  That sure is a beautiful job on your sight, Taylor.

Jim

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2015, 08:29:48 PM »
Thanks Jim.

Jerry, I use a sharp cold chisel and a four pound hammer to raise the barrel steel once the basic rectangle is cut for the dovetail.  I strike on the corners and middle alternating, so that I'm not trying to raise the whole thing at once.  Then I clean it up with a safe-sided triangular file. Once the sight is in, I dress off the angle flats, since metal flows out the sides as well.

This type of dovetail has several advantages over the simple cut one. First, you can make the dovetail much shallower since you have metal above the barrel's plane to add friction to the sight.  Second, it is easy to tighten a loose sight simply by tapping barrel metal down onto the sight, and lastly, it's easy to add a witness mark once the rifle is sighted in.  Whoever worked on Mr. Kuntz's rifle wasn't especially confident, judging by all the witness marks on this rifle.




And here's another one of mine...



One thing I don't know about the original, is if there is any system to hold the leaf in place other than friction and gravity.  On mine, I added a piece of clock spring in a longitudinal dovetail along the bottom of the sight base.  This makes the leaf snap up and down.  I got the idea for that from a four leaf English express sight, and the information on how to make it from a great gunsmithing book.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 08:35:56 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
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Offline Daryl

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2015, 08:36:38 PM »
If you offer filing lessons, please sign me up! :)

He's a better filer than a teacher of filing  -  or  -  I am unteachable - LOL (I seem to recall a school teacher saying something like that, once ---- or twice?)
Daryl

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Offline flatsguide

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2015, 01:56:48 AM »
Really nice bit of 'Swiss milling' on that sight. Nice work on the dovetail too.

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 06:14:23 PM »
There was a thread on inspiration.  I suddenly really really want to make one of these sights.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 06:52:13 AM »
Taylor every time I see your work I am am amazed at your skill.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 09:56:03 PM »
You are very generous with the praise.  I have a philosophy...if someone was able to do it in the past, I can do it now!  So far, I haven't chosen challenges that stop me.  One thing though - you have to really really want it, to make the time and effort commitment.

Take that fellow who carves wheelocks out of steel...there's skill, art, talent, commitment, and motivation.  Most enviable.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline PPatch

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 10:31:21 PM »
Ah, making your own sights. That is one of those deals where you can spend two-three days at or buy for 6-10 dollars. I'm not even talking about the flip up type. I got all fired up to make one a couple of years back and decided to make two while I was at it. My hacksaw and filing skills didn't come close to my imagination and both are sitting three-quarters finished in a little cup on a shelf in my shop to this day. Sometimes I come across them and marvel at how inept I was. Sights being sights there is a lot of tiny detail and they had better come out plumb and square when you are done, plus look like something resembling a rifle sight.

Jim, Taylor, those are beautifully done and I have an inkling of what a pain they were to do, and the skill involved.

dave

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Offline flatsguide

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Re: Mr. Kibler's Rear Sight
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 07:45:19 AM »
Hi Taylor,
I want to make a sight similar to the one you made shown above for the English Sporting rifle I'm making. You mentioned that you got some of the information from a "...great gunsmithing book". What book was that, may I ask?
Your sight looks very nice and I bet it feels good when the leaf snaps into place with the spring tension.
Thanks Richard