Author Topic: polishing to the next level help (Read 9764 times)

brokenflint · « **on:** March 19, 2009, 10:06:19 PM »

As the header line reads I need some help with lock polishing to the next level. I've gotten the lock to 400 / 600 grit sandpaper finish, but I'm having trouble with scratch marks etc at this point not disappearing so I have a mottled look. Sorry I can't post pics atm so you can see is going on. I'd like to be able to get this thing to look like Jim Chambers polishing entry thread. What do I do next?

George F. · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2009, 10:30:14 PM »

When you get those scratches, sometimes there galling from draw filing or just plain filing with a clogged file. To remove these marks you have to back track down to a coarser grit. What I do is use 220 grit against the direction of the scratch lines. This way I can really see when those marks disappear. Then go up to 320 against those new sanding lines and watch those disappear. then 10 400 again always going against the previous grit. Finially using 600 grit, then sometimes 0000 steel wool. But this is the way I proceed, Others may offer aother methods. Who cares, as long as the skin is off the cat, ...Geo.

Jim Filipski · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2009, 10:49:54 PM »

brokenflint,
George hit it pretty much on the head with what he wrote. I would like to add that as you bring up your metal to a higher & higher grit polish make sure your work area & surfaces are cleaned up from all the previous sanding grits .......a couple of flecks of 220 on your 400 /600 paper will kill you. I vacuum my work surfaces & areas between grits.
Jim

brokenflint · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2009, 12:33:54 AM »

George / Jim thanks for the reply, I have no galling or scratches from the previous grits, so this is not the issue . the surface as it stands is smooth with just the 400 or 600 grit finish lastly applied in that area ( I jumped around abit when i got bored in one area

. I need to get some photos up to really show what I'm talking about as this is going to be difficult with pics I think. Let me see if I can get something photo wise going tomorrow to post. In the meantime let me try to explain this better. I am getting sworls and what I am calling a shadow line at intersections of change of contour from not being able to get right into the creases so to speak. You see these minute scratches in direction change and a small return on itself scratch where the stroke ends. Now I'm not sure if I need to go to 1000 grit and if it will solve this or use some sort of polishing compound to remove these scratches. I tried "mothers" polish to see if this would help remove the fine but there was not much noticable change.

George I reread your post and see you are using steel wool after 600 grit. What does this do? How do you apply in straight line or circular motion, apply with or with oil?

George F. · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2009, 12:56:40 AM »

I usually just go over it , that's all. Now back to your dilemma, I guess you have disassembled the lock. If it's a standard Siler,flat faceted, Take the pan off. And frizzen. Polish these parts separately, if you have done that good,sorry. Now the swirl marks that you see are probably from doing this with the abrasive in your hands taking short fast strokes that have a tendency not to follow the direction constantly and not using a backer. I polish my plates by holding the plate in my hand, and using the backer with the abrasive clamped in the vise, or even on the counter/ work bench. I also wear my headset binoculars, because I can't see that well.This way you are more in control and will be taking long strokes. For the pan I have these sanding sticks.You can get them from Woodcraft. They come with little belts that fit over this sticks alittle shorter than a unsharpened pencil.The grits of the fine set start at 120,240,360,400,600 grits.Great care getting the little details under the pan, but being so small of a surface they go quick. They are also great for the flats of the pan, as well as the contours of the cock. Do the bevel edges first then the flays to clean any slightly clipped corners. Polishing a lock takes awhile, it's not something that you want to blow through. Bill Shipman is noted for crisp lines on ALL his work, both metal and wood. He is quite the master.Hope this bailed you out some, ...Geo.

brokenflint · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2009, 02:37:17 AM »

George

I have a feeling this is more or less a problem of technique. I use plexiglass sticks I make to specific shape to sand with, double stick tape to the plex apply the grit paper of choice and sand away. I do use a fast motion and I have a tendency to hold the lock plate in my hands while i sand / polish. I also tend to use heavy pressure while sanding / polishing, I may need to lighten up the pressure. I'm going out and get some 1000 or 1500 tomorrow at the auto parts store and see if this helps. I use an optivisor of 5x maginification, I can't see anymore either

the lock (chambers colonial virginia) is in its many parts, working on each part individually. As the lock is a curved face i tend to get better finish using my finger as a backer in between tight areas. I purchased some stones as recommended in the polishing tread, but nothing higher than 320 which was out of stock. I truth I stuck with the sandpaper over the stones once over 220 but I don't think this affects where I'm at

Jim Filipski · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2009, 02:53:59 AM »

brokenflint,
Without seeing your problem it is hard to narrow it down. Keep in mind if you are seeing scratches on what is a polished surface ...going on to fine grits won't help you ( unless I'm miss understanding the situation) You will have to go back to the next higher git that cause the scratches and work them out from there. Also I got a hint from you that "Pressure " may be an issue. If you are working a scratched area "work over it" don't "work on it" because this localized polishing can cause strange striations in your surfaces. As you progress to fine grits also reduce your pressures. If I get to 1000 grit or crocus cloth I'm barely wiping the surfaces
Hope this helps
Jim

George F. · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:08:18 AM »

Broke, Those round face locks are a REAL Painthe lock plate, maybe you should do last, after you have the pan and bridle done. Just be careful. It took me 2 full days of polishing. And I'm with Jim on going back to a courser grit to remove those scratches. Using a finer grit will take them out in a month or so, but the faster way would be to go back and remove those scratches with a coarser grit first and again work your way back to the finer grits. ...Geo.

brokenflint · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:36:12 AM »

George / Jim

I think pressure may be my issue for the most part, I'm leaving scratches with the grit I'm applying at the time, in this case 600, which are different looking from pass to pass so I get shiny and dull streaks over the entire surface. And I use a rapid pace. I am bearing down hard, which i guess I'm subconsciously thinking about a powered polishing wheel where I also tend to lean on it. I took some photos this evening but my closeup camera skills stink so what shows up isn't too clear. LOL I don't think I've been too clear in this thread!!! I'll try this tomorrow in the daylight, light slow strokes over the tail piece which is in fair shape to see what happens, I'll keep ya all posted.

Jim Filipski · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2009, 04:11:26 AM »

Brokenfint.
I'm starting to see a pattern here. Get yourself some nice big school erasers ( rubber) use these to back your fine grits!!!!! Nice even pressure..... it is easier then most think!

& George if you think the round faced Chambers are tough try the German ones with the relieved borders!!! next time I see you I will be bald!!!!

(Good thing I'm doin a Chris Springs gun at this time and not a German Jaeger $#*! then I will have to answer to Acer!)
I'm thinking throwing boiling Clorox over everything & no one will ever know!
Jim

Jim Filipski · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2009, 05:04:04 AM »

Brokenflint: Just out of curiosity: what are you building? 1200grit is befitting a European gun...not necessary in an American gun
Jim

brokenflint · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2009, 05:12:09 AM »

Hey Jim I'll get the erasers out tomorrow and try that also. This was to be a Va gun till I got on the polishing fit LOL I really wasn't looking for a mirror finish, just got carried away trying to removed the blemished appearance. Actually I think I will reread the lock polishing thread and possibly redo the beast with 400 and start again. You guys are just gonna have to learn that I do everything at least twice before I it figure out

Jim Filipski · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2009, 05:16:58 AM »

Quote from: brokenflint on March 20, 2009, 05:12:09 AM

You guys are just gonna have to learn that I do everything at least twice before I it figure out

We figure it out then do it twice! that's why we try to help!

Jim

George F. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:10:14 AM »

Hey Broke, How's that Colonial Lock Polishing going? ...Geo.

brokenflint · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2009, 04:56:07 AM »

George / Jim

I started over

I'm working over with 320 grit atm. Spent about 2 hours today, then my neck started to hurt from hunching over looking thru the optivisor LOL. This will be slow going but I'll keep ya posted where I'm at. I took some photos but they stink, seems like a glossy surface is a hassle to take a photograph of. I got out the instruction book with the camera to read up on manual focus with depth of field setup, photo I took that way was worse than the autofocus. As soon as I get a couple of good shots I'll post so ya all can see progress.

George F. · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2009, 04:11:29 PM »

Yes taking a photo can be a real problem. I've found using available light works best, but the shutter speed requires either a tripod or an extremely steady hand. . A flash is what you do NOT want to use on subjects like this.Those English and Colonial locks are a real pain. ...Geo.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2009, 05:18:21 PM »

I have found that lube helps tremendously to float out bits of sanding junk that builds under sandpaper or stone.

The oil will probably dissolve your double sided tape, which makes oil entirely impractical for sandpaper method.

When I polish, I like to cross hatch while polishing, then finish up in the long direction(linear) of the lock. The cross hatch shows up any deep scratches from the grit before. Then the linear shows up and eradicates any new scratches you have made with your current grit.

An alternative for you, especially with a round faced lock: soft wood sticks dipped in oil and abrasive. These will conform to the surface and greatly speed the process. Balsa, sugar pine for conforming. Maple for working inside corners and maintaining details.

When you change to finer grit, you must use a new stick, as the coarse grit is embedded in the old stick.

Acer

Benedict · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:43:27 PM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on March 22, 2009, 05:18:21 PM

I have found that lube helps tremendously to float out bits of sanding junk that builds under sandpaper or stone.

The oil will probably dissolve your double sided tape, which makes oil entirely impractical for sandpaper method.

When I polish, I like to cross hatch while polishing, then finish up in the long direction(linear) of the lock. The cross hatch shows up any deep scratches from the grit before. Then the linear shows up and eradicates any new scratches you have made with your current grit.

An alternative for you, especially with a round faced lock: soft wood sticks dipped in oil and abrasive. These will conform to the surface and greatly speed the process. Balsa, sugar pine for conforming. Maple for working inside corners and maintaining details.

When you change to finer grit, you must use a new stick, as the coarse grit is embedded in the old stick.

Acer

I read recently that using super glue to glue the sandpaper to sanding sticks eliminates the problem of the oil dissolving the double stick tape. Haven't tried it but is sounds plausible.

Bruce

Blacksmoke · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:16:14 PM »

Hey guys, Don't over look the use of polishing stones. These little guys are invaluable for lock polishing and were comonly used by the old makers to achieve that "mirror" finish often found on "London"locks-esp. the inner mechanism. But be sure to use lots of thin oil with them to keep the pours clean. They can be obtained from most jewelry supply companies like "Gesswein" and they come in a large variety of grits all the way up to the thousands. Hugh Toenjes

brokenflint · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:32:10 PM »

Actually I'm not having that much of a problem using double stick tape with sandpaper on the plexiglass sticks, yes I end up changing it but I get three or four sandpaper changes per tape, and I the tape changes out quick. Blacksmoke doesn't the super glue make changes difficult? I know I wear out paper fairly fast.

I hope I'm not keeping you guys in suspense for too long, I'm only working on this part time, I've got the house torn apart cleaning out 5 centuries of stuff LOL. I think I may find my garage in the next month or so

I did take a couple of more photos last night which have some better detail but still really don't show likeness of finish very well. I still seem to have the problems I mentioned originally in the thread, which is shadow line at the change in elevation ( which i do think is not removing fully previous grit scratch marks) because I am having trouble getting right into the edge. I've not tried the eraser trick yet as I've not gotten back to the finish I had previously on the lock.

Blacksmoke · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2009, 10:43:02 PM »

Brokenflint-- That's why I suggested using small polishing Stone's -you can get into corners and up against raised mouldings a lot better than with emery paper pasted on a stick. Don't get me wrong emery can be usefull for some applications such as the final sanding on barrels and metal with a large surface. Since I discovered the small polishing stones my polishing goes a lot easier. Hugh Toenjes

George F. · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:53:35 PM »

I found that polishing a Chambers English lock, the one with the tiny lip around the perimeter of the plate, that the stones WERE the best method. They proved invaluable in other areas as well. ...Geo.

Dphariss · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:10:49 AM »

Quote from: brokenflint on March 19, 2009, 10:06:19 PM

As the header line reads I need some help with lock polishing to the next level. I've gotten the lock to 400 / 600 grit sandpaper finish, but I'm having trouble with scratch marks etc at this point not disappearing so I have a mottled look. Sorry I can't post pics atm so you can see is going on. I'd like to be able to get this thing to look like Jim Chambers polishing entry thread. What do I do next?

0000 steel wool and metal polish. Mothers Chrome polish etc from the auto parts store.
Takes away all the scratches in no time.

Dan

brokenflint · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:10:42 AM »

I purchased the stones from Gesswein in Acer's thread, some where back ordered so my opinion of these is on hold until I see the quality of the others. for the most part the coarse grit stones I received do not have a sharp edge and I can get into the recesses with the emery and the edge of my finger nail better. the 320 grit stone has a better edge but I would like to be able to cut the length down to make them a better tool in tight spots :-)

I've used the steel / brass brush trick on large pieces (medieval armor) as well as the scotch brite pads but not on anything as small as LR parts, but I would like to develop the correct by hand technique, so I'll keep hammering at it. Thanks all

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Author Topic: polishing to the next level help (Read 9764 times)

brokenflint

George F.

brokenflint

George F.

brokenflint

George F.

brokenflint

brokenflint

George F.

brokenflint

George F.

brokenflint

George F.

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