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Author Topic: European or American Raise Carved Flint  (Read 11268 times)

Antiqueguns

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European or American Raise Carved Flint
« on: December 18, 2015, 11:43:56 PM »
I thought this was European, but some fellows told me it was American made.  I figured fellows here would know.  The description below means nothing, it is just summarizing details as I see them. All I am interested in is my question.  Thanks,


079-G1015-0536, Swamp Barrel, Full Stock, Wood Patchbox, .69 cal 1700's Musket.  With name E.D. Tanner is the maker on the top of the barrel. With raise carving on stock, raise carving on patchbox.  In original flint, with clear markings, crisp action.  The gun stock has not been sanded but coated in a heavy clear finish.  Decorated brass furniture with relief casting.  A 39 inch barrel.  Very good overall, desireable gun that dates from early to mid 1700's. 












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Offline Shreckmeister

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 11:53:32 PM »
I vote Euro
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Offline Breadhead

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2015, 11:56:59 PM »
Uh, yeah... Euro.
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 12:02:43 AM »
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Offline JV Puleo

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2015, 12:29:45 AM »
Anyone who thinks that is an American rifle also believes in Santa Claus.
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Offline jdm

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2015, 12:57:38 AM »
Sell it to the guy who thinks it's American.
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JIM

Offline Avlrc

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2015, 01:34:55 AM »
Quote from: JV Puleo on December 19, 2015, 12:29:45 AM
Anyone who thinks that is an American rifle also believes in Santa Claus.
Well it is close to Christmas  ;D
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Offline Buck

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2015, 01:53:41 AM »
Antique Guns,
The gun is European, good luck.
Buck
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Antiqueguns

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2015, 04:48:44 AM »
thanks Guys
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Offline Molly

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2015, 04:24:35 PM »
Klunkie gun.

NO Santa!
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Offline smart dog

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2015, 04:56:57 PM »
Hi,
I sure don't believe that checkering was produced in the early 1700s.  I suspect it was added much later.  I also think the patchbox is a replacement.

dave
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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2015, 05:40:52 PM »
 My guess is German.  An Happy Holidays to all.
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Offline Longknife

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2015, 05:47:59 PM »
Is it rifled or smooth?
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Ed Hamberg

Offline lexington1

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2015, 06:48:17 PM »
Brandenburg, Germany. I would be willing to bet that it was reconverted. When it was converted to cap is probably when the checkering was added. The patchbox lid may be original, but has had the dome taken down and checkered, also probably when it was refurbished. I have seen quite a few of these earlier German guns that had been checkered like this and I'm guessing they had make-overs at the same time as their conversions. The Euro conversions weren't simply done by screwing a drum into the side of the barrel but rather they would cut off the breech end of the barrel and add an entire new plug set up. Very strong, but also ugly, imho. These early German guns might appear to be clunky, but most of them are much more petite, lighter, and better handling than then you would think.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2015, 07:14:46 PM »
Well, let me just throw this out there. I believe it to be a restock. Why? Alot of odd things. Trigger  guard is not inlet, thumb piece is not inlet. Way late checkering. The butt plate appears to be narrowed down. Carving ain't so great for a Euro gun. All of the mounts plus barrel and lock are a much earlier style than the stock.
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Offline lexington1

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2015, 09:05:28 PM »
That could be too. I guess you would have to be able to inspect it in person to know for sure.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2015, 11:55:00 PM »
The barrel has a whole lot more wear than the stock. as has already been pointed out, the lock has been converted back to flint.
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Offline lexington1

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2015, 12:14:06 AM »
Yes, but the loss of inletting could be a result of refinishing as well. Lots of originals have been filed and sanded beyond recognition. I'm just playing devils advocate  ;D

Either way, it was a fine German rifle in its day.......
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Offline lexington1

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2015, 12:20:50 AM »
There is a very early swivel breech flinter that shows up at the gun shows in our area once in a while. I kind of reminds me of this. It was refinished bright and coated with with some type of really heavy epoxy finish, like you would find on a counter top. I had been tempted to buy it in the past, but I think it's fubar'ed with no hope of resurrection. It makes me sad to think that it had been treated this way.
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Offline Longknife

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2015, 07:03:44 AM »
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/107/536.html


The gun Dennis posted in the link above and this gun a very similar, same patch box, same checkering, same  hardware, same profile.......Same maker.......
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Ed Hamberg

Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2015, 04:42:51 PM »
Quote from: Longknife on December 21, 2015, 07:03:44 AM
http://www.amoskeagauction.com/107/536.html


The gun Dennis posted in the link above and this gun a very similar, same patch box, same checkering, same  hardware, same profile.......Same maker.......

It is the same gun.

-Ron
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Offline sqrldog

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2015, 04:59:46 PM »
It's still growing. It has a 39" barrel in the original post and a 34 1/2" barrel at the auction. Tim
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Offline Longknife

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2015, 06:44:41 PM »
Quote from: sqrldog on December 21, 2015, 04:59:46 PM
It's still growing. It has a 39" barrel in the original post and a 34 1/2" barrel at the auction. Tim

It also has a .65 cal. barrel and described as a RIFLE in the auction,,,, but described as a 69 cal. MUSKET (smooth bore?) in this thread........I guess it could have been stretched and bore out?....
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2015, 08:31:02 PM »
Two semi-on topic comments.

It is noted that the barrel has been growing in length. I used to work for a specialty alloy distributer. Fancy name for a warehouse. We took big plates or long bars and cut them down to the size the customer wanted.
The man who ran our Cleveland operation gave prospective warehouse hands a test before hiring. One of the questions was "how many inches in a foot?" 
I used to think that amusing.
I no longer do.

Second, with respect to conversion methods. I have an Austrian (so said Carlyle Smith in the 1960's) rifle converted from wheel lock to percussion. This was done by screwing in a nice bolster, not by cutting off the breech.
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Offline Stophel

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Re: European or American Raise Carved Flint
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2015, 04:33:10 AM »
Prussian rifle, or surrounding regions, 1750 or earlier (probably more like 1720.  I've heard of the maker, but don't remember exactly when or where he lived).  I'm thinking restocked, or at least most definitely reworked, post 1800.  I'm actually surprised to not see a diopter post mount on the wrist of the gun.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2015, 04:38:30 AM by Stophel »
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