Rifles and time frame

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Hello,

This might need to be in the collector's section, but I think the folks in here would have some input as well.  I am studying on building a rifle once my dissertation is done.  End of this summer (knock on wood).  I have been studying a couple of different styles that I like, but I am also interested in rifles in the historical sense.  The area I live in, and am researching, is the western piedmont of North Carolina.  In my research I have run across numerous estate records that mention rifles, they also mention smmothbores and they always seperate the two.  Pretty neat.  Most of these deeds are 1771-1774. 

My question is this.  What "style" rifle would these folks have?  Most styles that I am familiar with are after this time period, or at the very beginning of it.  Except Virginia Rifles (which I'm not sure what that means since I have seen so many that all look so different) and Christian's Springs/Edward Marshall Styles.  Most of these folks were coming out of Maryland and Pennsylvania, and were only first generation in the region I am in.  So I thinking the guns came with them.  Some of them even mention Bucks County.  There were some makers in the area, but the examples I have seen are later. 

I also, use the term "style" in quatation marks, because I imagine that many rifles were not made in a set style. 

I look forward to all the information that I have no doubt you folks will come up with. 

Coryjoe

[northmn]

In doing a quick and dirty research on that periods history a point was made that NC was settled from a Southward movement from Virginia of mostly British lineage with some retaining strong British ties.  Rifles in that region reflected that influence.  The Virginia styled rifles are an example of that difference. Suppliers like Chambers sell English locks and English influenced hardware from that time period.   An Early English fowler would likely be a good choice.  I do not know how much they researched firearms for the movie  "The Patriot" .  I know they did clothing down to the weave.  Mel Gibson's armament may have been fairly authentic to the Carolina area. 

DP

[Clowdis]

coryjoe,
The western piedmont area of North Carolina would definately encompass the Salem school and the Voglers. If you can find a copy of John Bivens book "Longrifles of North Carolina" you would definately be "in" as far as studying NC styles. If you live anywhere near Randleman get in touch with me and I'll let you look through mine. As for rifles that show up as being from other regions, remember that the "Great Wagon Road" ran down through the Shenandoah Valley and into Salisbury, NC. Many people and goods came to NC from Pennsylvania, Virginia, and other northern colonies and states via this road. Other settlers moved westward to the piedmont and mountains from the coastal areas of the state, so we had sort of a blend of cultures in this area. But, Bivens book is the best reference source for gunsmiths in NC.

[Stophel]

The problem is time.

Maybe the best example of a POSSIBLE 1770's Carolina rifle is the one in RCA.  I don't have it in front of me, so I don't know the number.  The one with the outstanding carving behind the cheek and the brass box with the little thumb latch at the rear of the door.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Thanks for the help everyone.  In the western piedmont their was more German migration than english.  Although around here everyone thinks it is Scots-Irish, and are insulted anytime anyone suggest otherwise.  I am aware of the Salem schools, with the Moravian settlements. 

Some documents mention coming to and going from Bethehem, and I am wondering if that is the same geographic location for that type of firearm. 

I have Bivins book, but I do not have RCA, I have already spent my book money for this month, so maybe next. 

Thanks eveyone.

Coryjoe

[Clowdis]

Looks like you're asking what style or what the appearance would be of rifles in the the western piedmont in the 1771-74 time period and I may have misunderstood that in my previous reply. The area in question wasn't a wealthy place and the rifles probably would reflect that. Most of the rifle makers would follow at a later date. Probably what I'd say that might be typical of the area (assuming not imported from Pa or Va) would be a plain, uncarved rifle with brass mountings and with or without a buttplate. Either a grease hole where the patchbox would be or a very simple sliding wood or brass patchbox. Set triggers have always been in favor in NC. Books will almost always show the nicest style of rifles from an area. But to see what is left of the rifles people used you need to need to visit some shows, not normal gun shows but collector shows. There is a VERY good one coming up in May (I think) in Salisbury that's made up of collectors from the southeast region. PM me and I'll see if I can give you some more help.
Blair

[northmn]

Looks like you're asking what style or what the appearance would be of rifles in the the western piedmont in the 1771-74 time period and I may have misunderstood that in my previous reply. The area in question wasn't a wealthy place and the rifles probably would reflect that. Most of the rifle makers would follow at a later date. Probably what I'd say that might be typical of the area (assuming not imported from Pa or Va) would be a plain, uncarved rifle with brass mountings and with or without a buttplate. Either a grease hole where the patchbox would be or a very simple sliding wood or brass patchbox. Set triggers have always been in favor in NC. Books will almost always show the nicest style of rifles from an area. But to see what is left of the rifles people used you need to need to visit some shows, not normal gun shows but collector shows. There is a VERY good one coming up in May (I think) in Salisbury that's made up of collectors from the southeast region. PM me and I'll see if I can give you some more help.
Blair

I have plans for a Southern rifle like that somewhere.  It was dated in the 1760's and was very plain.  The barrel was square at the breech and went oct to round.
It was 60 caliber and as plain as described.  No buttplate, no entry thimble, but had a brass triggerguard.  A comment was made that powder and lead was far too expensive to waste on squirrels and other small game.  Hence the large bore. If I can find the plans I will comment further.

DP

[shooter93]

RCA?

[Karl Kunkel]

RCA is shorthand for "Rifles of Colonial America" by George Shumway, a two volume set.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Looks like you're asking what style or what the appearance would be of rifles in the the western piedmont in the 1771-74 time period and I may have misunderstood that in my previous reply. The area in question wasn't a wealthy place and the rifles probably would reflect that. Most of the rifle makers would follow at a later date. Probably what I'd say that might be typical of the area (assuming not imported from Pa or Va) would be a plain, uncarved rifle with brass mountings and with or without a buttplate. Either a grease hole where the patchbox would be or a very simple sliding wood or brass patchbox. Set triggers have always been in favor in NC. Books will almost always show the nicest style of rifles from an area. But to see what is left of the rifles people used you need to need to visit some shows, not normal gun shows but collector shows. There is a VERY good one coming up in May (I think) in Salisbury that's made up of collectors from the southeast region. PM me and I'll see if I can give you some more help.
Blair

Well I am thinking more along the lines of before there was much production in North Carolina, so many would have been imported I think.  But all of this is very helpful.  I am not far from Salisbury and go there pretty often, I will send you a message.

Coryjoe

[Cory Joe Stewart]

Looks like you're asking what style or what the appearance would be of rifles in the the western piedmont in the 1771-74 time period and I may have misunderstood that in my previous reply. The area in question wasn't a wealthy place and the rifles probably would reflect that. Most of the rifle makers would follow at a later date. Probably what I'd say that might be typical of the area (assuming not imported from Pa or Va) would be a plain, uncarved rifle with brass mountings and with or without a buttplate. Either a grease hole where the patchbox would be or a very simple sliding wood or brass patchbox. Set triggers have always been in favor in NC. Books will almost always show the nicest style of rifles from an area. But to see what is left of the rifles people used you need to need to visit some shows, not normal gun shows but collector shows. There is a VERY good one coming up in May (I think) in Salisbury that's made up of collectors from the southeast region. PM me and I'll see if I can give you some more help.
Blair

I have plans for a Southern rifle like that somewhere.  It was dated in the 1760's and was very plain.  The barrel was square at the breech and went oct to round.
It was 60 caliber and as plain as described.  No buttplate, no entry thimble, but had a brass triggerguard.  A comment was made that powder and lead was far too expensive to waste on squirrels and other small game.  Hence the large bore. If I can find the plans I will comment further.

DP

That sounds interesting.  I have a gun that was in my family that would almost fit that description perfectly excpet it is much later. 
From a building standpoint, I will probably start from a kit, and I was looking at Jim Chambers Smooth Rifle Kit, and having the barrel rifled.  Which I think would fit what you are talking about and which I sort of had in my mind.  If I am off base in assuming that let me know.  But I would not want to go without a buttplate.  Seems risky. 

Thanks

Coryjoe