Welding up lock bolt holes

[sean69]

Things went a little south with the stock carving. I'm going to start again with a new blank [well started already] But, that leaves me with a small problem, well 3 small problems.

the holes for the lock bolts have been drilled and threaded already as well as the hole through the breech plug lug. I'm thinking I want to fill these up [weld over them] rather than trying to positions everything exactly as it was. so:

- what types of metal are the breech plug & lock face made from?
- any thoughts/ideas on the type of material to use to weld up the holes?
- any idea what sort of temperature these things can reach without distorting? [or melting!!]
- has anyone successfully done this? [or has a better solution]


I have the R.E Davis Jaeger lock and Rice Barrel/plug

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/724/1/LOCK-JAEGER?PageSize=100

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/0/1/RICE-62-J

any info would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Mark Elliott]

You could plug the holes in the lock plate with screws, but I wouldn't do that.   I would leave the holes where they are and work around them.   I have gotten in the habit of drilling my lock nail/screw holes from inside the lock mortice and then marking the lock from the drilled holes so that I can finish drilling the lock plate on a drill press.   

However,  on the last lock, I wanted the front lock nail/screw in a particular place in the plate, so I drilled it first and then drilled my through hole.   I would suggest that you inlet the lock and then use the tap drill to drill through the tapped hole and mark the location of the through holes.   Then you can remove the lock and finish drilling them with a clear drill.   

As an alternative, you can drill from both sides toward the middle with a tap drill and then connect the holes with a clear drill.   You might want to do that if you have already drilled your side plate.   You would use the same approach with the tang screw.   

This is just my opinion.   I wouldn't even contemplate welding up the holes unless you are very skilled with a TIG welder.    I just got one, but I am still a long way from feeling comfortable trying to fill a hole with it.   Burn a hole, yes; fill a hole, no. 

[Mark Elliott]

Rather than completely ignore your specific questions,  I thought that I would try to answer them.

- what types of metal are the breech plug & lock face made from?

Most muzzleloading barrels and breech pins/plugs are made from 12L14; a leaded mild steel.

Most lock plates are made form a low carbon, high alloy tool steel.   I don't remember the specific type.   It can be safely case hardened without hardening through.

- any thoughts/ideas on the type of material to use to weld up the holes?

I would think you standard mild steel filler rod would suffice.

- any idea what sort of temperature these things can reach without distorting? [or melting!!]

Your are going to have to reach welding temp, which will warp the lock plate if you heat enough of it.   The thing is to accomplish the job with only heating the area just around the hole.   With a 1/8" deep by about 1/8" wide hole, that will be a challenge.  As I said above,  I don't think I am skilled enough to do that.   You may be.   I am sure there are many on this forum who are. 

- has anyone successfully done this? [or has a better solution]

Many have.   I have not.   My suggested alternative has already been given.

[jerrywh]

 I have filled holes with a tig and acetylene both.  The best way it to fill the hole with a screw and then weld over it.  The acetylene method will oxidize the lock plate a lot and require a lot of finishing. The tig method is best by far but it takes some skill. My advise is to send it off or buy another lock plate. Any good welder will chage more than a lockplate anyway.
 As far as metal goes use plain iron wire with acetylene. With tig you need tig rod or mig wire.

[Acer Saccharum]

I welded a Davis plate to fill the tail grooves; I then noticed the plate was warped.

I thought the plate was low carbon, so it would bend easily.

Well....

The plate snapped in half when I tried to bend it. So it's NOT low carbon, but probably a medium carbon steel. Anneal after welding!

I did end up welding the plate back together, annealing, filing, polishing, and yes, the final product was great. But man, what a lot of work(that could have been avoided!).

[smart dog]

Hi Sean,
I would urge you not to worry about the holes.  Simply use them as your guide and template to drill the new holes. If in that process you drill away some threads, which if you are careful will not happen, simply redrill the lock bolt holes for the next larger screw size.

dave

[sean69]

interesting...  mostly worried about warping. but here is the response from TOTW

"
Welding is risky, best left to experts (or avoided).

Yes, it is common practice to inlet the lock plate, and use an undersize drill bit, through the existing holes, to align screws.

Do not weld or heat the plug!

The lock plate is 8620 wax cast steel, easily welded.  Use carbon steel rod, not stainless (which welder's prefer).

Our best advice is to avoid welding,
"

So if it needs to be done the plate can be fixed up, the tang....  still a llot of room there, I can fit a larger insert there and redrill if necessary.

thanks all!

[Mark Elliott]

The best way it to fill the hole with a screw and then weld over it.  

I think I could manage that. 

[smart dog]

Hi,
Sean, this is not a big issue.  I've done this quite a few times when using parts salvaged from an old build or someone else's wreck.  Just inlet the lock on the new stock and use the lock holes to guide your drill through the wood and the breech plug.  It couldn't be simpler.  No offense Sean, but this "problem" would not even slow me down a nanosecond.  Now a complication would be if the lock bolt hole in the lock is a blind hole, like on many higher end English locks.  Thus the bolt does not show on the outside of the lockplate.  In that case, you simply take a steel rod the diameter of the hole, file a point on one end like a center punch, cut the length to just a little longer than the hole depth, insert it into the hole and place the lock in the inlet.  The little center punch locates the hole and drill away.

dave