Questions / advice on dying leather

[mab7]

I have some 4 ounce goatskin that was vegetable tanned that is nice and soft, yet firm enough for perfect use for bags. The issue is that when dyed, it loses all of its softness and flexibility. The leather gets extremely stiff and even after being worked, it will loosen a little but never regains the softness or flexibility. I am using Fieblings liquid dye in both light and medium brown and appying it with the throw away sponge brushes. I get the same results if I dye it with the leather wet, damp or dry. I even tried using the Fieblings deglazer and it does not help, in fact I think it makes it worse. The light brown dye is the #201 and is labeled "Fieblings Dye" and the medium is labeled as "Fieblings Instituional Dye".

Am I doing something wrong or is this a normal, expected result? Is there something else I should be doing? This is driving me nuts and any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Hungry Horse]

Smoke the leather like the indians did. Depending on what kind of wood, and it's degree of decay, will dictate the color you get. Also how much smoke you give it makes a difference. Anything you put on wet, and then let dry will make the leather stiff.

   Hungry Horse

[longcruise]

I use neats foot oil.  If you are making a bag that requires turning, may as well wait until you have done that step before treating it. 

There are probably other ways of doing it so wait and read before doing anything.

[wet willy]

Veg tanned leather gets rather hard when dried after being wet, like wetting the bag you sewed inside out and turned to hide the threads. Most contemporary dyes, like Feibings, also somewhat stiffen the leather. Vinegaroon (vinegar aged with iron chips) stiffens the leather somewhat less, but it only works if you want black.

Neats Foot oil keeps the leather fairly supple and darkens it somewhat, but if you need to soak the bag in water to turn it inside out after sewing, it will make the leather a bit softer, but not much.

Some suggest working the bag back and forth, rolling and unrolling, to help in softening, but be prepared to do this for many repetitions.

[ScottH]

Sounds like you are using the Fiebing dye that is an alcohol based "spirit" dye. They do make oil dyes, those might help keep your leather softer after dyeing it.

[FDR]

I have had good luck applying dye with an air brush. Nice ever color without having to soak the leather.

Here is a trick from the Fiebing's web site:

http://www.fiebing.com/tips/mixing-fiebings-leather-dye-and-prime-neatsfoot-oil-compound/

[mab7]

I will have to give the neatsfoot oil and dye mix a try since I have plenty of both.
When searching this, I noticed the Fiebling's oil dye is alcohol based. It seems to me that would net the same result as spirit based?

[LRB]

  The so called "oil" dyes come out a tad softer, but yes, they are also solvent based.

[T.C.Albert]

I believe "Eco-flow" leather dyes, also sold by Tandy, are water based.
I use them a good deal, and am usually happy with the results...
both with how they cover, and with how they don't dry or stiffen the leather.
tc

[mab7]

Thanks for the replies.
Looks like I have some testing to do. I wish I had started this a few months ago so I could test walnut dye also. Black walnut trees aren't exactly rare in this part of Missouri...

[ddoyle]

cold smoking it sounds like the way to go.  Why do I think cold alder smoke would give a pleasing tone?

[Smoothshooter]

I have read that one of the neatsfoot oils is bad for leather long term, actually breaking it down over time. Can't remember which one it was, neatsfoot oil, or the neatsfoot compound.
Any truth to this?

[T.C.Albert]

Just curious, but would someone post any results they have had smoke coloring vegetable tanned leathers...

I have zero experience doing it...

I know smoke works to color brain tans, but thought it worked cause brain tan isn't really a tannage process...the fats are removed so it doesn't become rancid or rot, but no tannins have been introduced into the hide...that is unless you smoke it...I think its a molecular chemistry thing...

so, my initial thought is that smoke wont really absorb or bond to commercial vegetable tanned leather...and if it wont bond, I wonder if it will color? And if it does, how deeply?  Also, I have some thought that if veg tan does absorb smoke, eventually any absorbed sulfurs may activate in humid conditions to create weak acids that actually lead to red rot over time...?

Im likely all wrong here cause like i say I have no experience experimenting with idea...but if someone else has, I would love to know how it worked out...
sincerely,
tc

[James Rogers]

Ditto exactly to TC's post : )

[Mikeh]

   
Smoothshooter. I believe it was the neetsfoot compound oil that supposedly broke the leather down. I use the 100% pure neetsfoot oil. Don't know what is in the compound oil.  Mikeh

[Hungry Horse]

 I am the advisor for a BSA Order of the Arrow chapter, that does a lot of native clothing projects. It's very hard to get the look of brain tanned buckskin, without paying the price for brain tanned buckskin. Also it's not easy finding a place the boys can do a messy project like brain tanning deer hides. So, using white, or light colored, commercially tanned deer hides, that have been smoked is the logical answer. I have found a nice color can be achieved by using cedar that has decomposed to the point that it is small chunks, but not punky. Care must be taken to make sure the color is somewhat even. This is achieved by rotating the hide during the smoking process. The end result for us not only gave us the visual effect we desired, but also made our regalia smell incredible.

   Hungry Horse

[RoaringBull]

Something that has worked for me over the years is to rinse the bag off/out in an old slop sink. This will help in removing some of the dye and even out the color a little bit too. Then I hang them outside of in the utility room to dry. Then I sit in front of the tv with my mink oil and rub it in and twist and turn and bend and twist until its as soft as I want.

[Hungry Horse]

 Years ago somebody gave several commercially tanned deer hides. They were yaller as a school bus, and slick as a salamander. I had no use for them as they were, but, had nothing invested, and nothing to lose. I  made a soft Indian style saddlebag out of the worst of the bunch (slick side in).When it was finished, and all the fringe was cut, I put them in the washing machine, with a packet of Rit dye remover, and hot water. I stopped the washer before it pumped out, and restarted it, three times. When I pulled the saddlebag out, the yellow was gone. The wet leather had kind of a gray/green look to it. I worked the damp leather until it was soft. That saddlebag, and a pair of leggings I made later, turned a nice tannish gray and are regularly mistaken for brain tanned buckskin.

   Hungry Horse