Author Topic: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting  (Read 4319 times)

jwh1947

  • Guest
Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« on: March 18, 2009, 03:49:51 AM »
Over the past few days we've had some fun expressing differing views on the nature of "the truth" and that is good.  Everybody likes a good fight, especially those on the sidelines who are merely spectators.  I learned some things  and shared some insights, too. 

In a recent phone conversation I learned that hate is neither a big part of Lawrence's philosophy, nor is it a big part of mine.  I'm not going to sit here and lie to you by saying that we didn't have differences; we still do.  But they don't focus on personality.  They don' t even focus on symbolism.  That's just the current trendy topic at hand. 

What we are dealing with here is a tiny pimple of an age-old problem, perhaps the most fundamental conceptual divide since the Renaissance.  Whom are we to believe? The annointed who speak with the authority of revelation, or the men and women who have studied the natural world around them and postulated theories based upon demonstrable evidence.  We're talking about types of thinking, right down to the base line of what constitutes reality.


On one side we have absolutism and certainty and on the opposing side we have empirical and scientifically-based analysis which usually leads to further doubt and more specific questions.  If you stop and think about types of thought and where they lead it's not hard to follow the dichotomy through many of our most historic and recent events.  It's just another tiny scene in a bigger drama that is being played out in the minds and policies of mankind.
It was there in the Scopes trial.  It was the core issue in determining whether witches should be burned at Salem.  As a matter of fact the Nazis brainwashed themselves into believing the absolutist nonsense ideology of National Socialism and used this as a basis for killing 11,000,000 non combatants, mostly women and children, from 1940-1945.

Am I saying that anyone who doesn't see things my way is a witch-burning Nazi.  Absolutely not.  Am I saying that absolutist thinking is without-a-doubt the most unproductive and potentially misleading and dangerous type of thinking known to mankind?  Yes.  I am absolute in my distrust of absolutism. 

Absolute idealism is an especially dangerous mode of thought.  I'm not a name dropper, but a philosopher of this bent whom I especially detest is Hegel.  Google him up for a quick refresher.  He even used his omniscient deductive thought to "prove" that there could only be so many planets in the galaxy.  A few years later the astronomers added one more.  Yet, you can trace his pattern of thought right through the holocaust.  It was not Darwinian concepts that fueled the fires, but unrestrained idealism.  The pedigree is pure and traceable in the world of ideas.  That's why we rationalists hate it, in all forms, and in the smallest degrees.  We believe that a bad idea is like cancer.  You don't ignore it; you don't tweak it; you don't get an "adjustment."  You cut it out, as soon as possible.  Alan G. apparently had the same type of rigorous teachers as I did.

I will certainly concede that anyone has the right to be an oracle of symbolism if that is what they like.  All I ask is that, to guys like us, words like "perhaps," "may" "likely," "suggests," "offers support for," or "lends credence to," keep us tuned in, while terms like "is," "shows," "must be," and, worst of all, "proves," make the bull $#*& detectors immediately go off in our narrow minds, and we are going to continue to call you on that.  If you call us ignorant, we are going to call you a liar.  If you give me just this much, I, for one will never question the comment.

Oh, for the phone message on my recorder.  Soren Kierkegaard was an early 19th century Danish philosopher.  His thought is rooted in the individual as subject.  Son of a Lutheran minister, he studied deeply Christian thought and quickly came to the conclusion that reason, common sense, science, etc, could never be used to prove that God existed. One had to make the "leap of faith." in order to be a believer.  He said, "I believe, because it is absurd."  The father of Christian existentialism.  Some who have actually studied his ideas find his thoughts comforting and useful because they use them to form a dichotomy between their "secular" life and their "sacred" life.  They take the leap each Sunday.  Others find it quaint that this stuff was all pretty well detailed 200 years ago.  Read Either/Or and his later book Concept of Dread. Be prepared to look into the abyss of darkness which is your own soul.  Not for beginners.  JWHeckert


Mike R

  • Guest
Re: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 05:49:51 PM »
Very nice. :)   What alot of folks lack [a failure of our schools?] is the ability of, or training in, critical thinking.  To paraphrase an old quote from a modern philospher [mental blank on name] about a noted preacher, "Will James, used to preach about the will to believe, but I wish to teach the will to doubt, for it is not the will to believe that is important, but the wish to find out."   Bertrand Russell [who also may be the quoted one], taught a way to critically read science [history would do as well]:  When reading a paper, either underline in different colors or make a separate list of FACTS, INFERENCES, and CONCLUSIONS.  Then cross check the lists of facts and inferences with the conclusions.  If any of the conclusions in the paper/article are not supported by facts or inferences in the paper, then they are not supported [they may be true but are not demonstrated by the paper in which they are written].  A surprising number of technical papers fail this test.  An enormous number of popular articles do.  A fact is a measurement, a repeatable observation, an existing object, etc...some folks confuse that.  In the old days a photo of something was taken as proof of a factual thing--nowadays digital fakery abounds...

Offline Stophel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4532
  • Chris Immel
Re: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 07:37:49 PM »
I'm one of those horrible, hated, despised "absolutists".

"Existentialism" has been a horrible influence upon Christianity.

What this would have upon the study of flintlock guns, I don't know.  The problem is when people appoint themselves as the One Great Oracle of Truth, the Holder of All Wisdom, The Final Word on all things..."you aren't experienced enough, only I am". 

There's nothing wrong with absolutism...properly applied.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 07:47:54 PM by Stophel »
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

jwh1947

  • Guest
Re: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 09:31:07 PM »
I tend to agree with you that existentialism is amoral.  I'm not advocating it any more than any brand of thinking ending in "ism"  or "ity."  Some people talk abstractions and get a free pass.  See how aggravating it is when somebody gets too close to another's conceptual foundations?  It has more to do with guns and daily life than some of the things I've been reading about longrifles in pop journals as of late.  JWHeckert

jwh1947

  • Guest
Re: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 09:34:12 PM »
Mike R. This is what it has to do with guns, gun collecting, and putting good money out for collectibles.  We need truth, not obfuscation, if we are to make reasonable choices. That's all.  Nothing at all profound about the bottom line. JWHeckert

jwh1947

  • Guest
Re: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 11:50:15 PM »
More off-the-wall abstractions with only indirect associations to guns, and only of interest to the illuminati such as the Great Pinyone and others who have seen the inner light of enlightened truth.

One of the things I do for food is serve as a clearing house for public policy,
arts (especially music) news, and war crimes material emerging only from the former Yugoslavia.  Nobody else is interested, so I have no competition. For that matter, we can make this a multi-media event if you would simply take a moment to Google up a musical friend of mine, Elvira Rahic.  She's all over the net, so you want to go Elvira Rahic--Oficijelna web Prezentacija.  She gives you 3 free songs, bottom right.  Crank 'em up and I'll tell you a brief story.

Elvira is from Sarajevo, Bosnia-Herzegovina, which is sort of the Nashville of that part of Europe--a multicultural arts center, beautiful and progressive for those parts.  During the 1995 war, Sarajevo was incessantly bombed and shelled by both Serbian troops and NATO.  Incidentally, the ethnic cleansing (genocide) was every bit as ugly, though on a smaller scale, as that which occurred around there during WWII.  Don't take my word about.  Read.

Elvira's last name ends in "ic" as do most other last names there.  During the war at a checkpoint the police/military/irregulars/thugs (depending upon the survivors that you speak to) would ask you your name at a checkpoint.  In one part of the town if you pronounced that syllable "ic" as "bic" rather than "ich" as in "switch" you revealed yourself as a member of the wrong tribe and you were shot on the spot, usually by another officer in the back of the head.  On the other side of the town the survivors all pronounced it the other way.

Why do I tell this story? For two reasons.  It underscores my concern with absolutism, which I have described previously.  These were Serbs (Orthodox Christian) fighting against Croats (Roman Catholic Christian).  Both occasionally teaming up to nail the Muslims, then going back to cutting each other's throats, and the throats of their children.  This was done by people who saw their cause as absolute and almost always identified their mission as a religious one, of the intolerant type, not ecumenical.  Furthermore Elvira survived,  in part because her family and protectors had guns and knew how to use them.  Many survivors credit their life to the fact they had a firearm.  Most local inhabitants have access to a rifle or shotgun, unlike in northern Europe where they are heavily regulated. 

This is why I like both separation of church and state and the right to responsibly possess arms.  I see both as pillars of American freedom and whenever I get to Europe, upon my return I immediately find a clean piece of American turf, free of dog urine, and kiss it.  Don't be messin' with my freedom of thought and my right to pack heat.  And I won't be messin' with yours.

 

 

 




jwh1947

  • Guest
Re: Philosophy 101 and gun collecting
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009, 12:49:44 AM »
Addendum:  Yes, there are great guns in Europe.  Many in museums and some for sale in shops in nearly any large city.  Mostly Jaegers.  Don't kid yourself, there are no more bargains over there than there are over here.  Plus you are competing with clowns like me who know where to go and where not to go.  Lots of interesting stuff coming out of Ukraine and Bulgaria recently...war booty captured by Russians during WWII, some antiques, but mostly captured Nazi stuff, which is good stuff, mint, by the crate-full. It has really *#)*^~ off the USA dealers because it has depressed their prices.  Your gain, their loss.  I know nothing more about it, but we're out there working for you.   

 You will either need an import license or be listed as an agent of someone who does have one of them.  Take your Blackberry and your Kel-Tec.  The exchange rates are in continuous fluctuation.  It takes time and money, but it is one of the most romantic lifestyles known to mankind and a lot more action than sitting at a moribund gunshow all weekend.  Sometimes you find an American gun that you wish to bring home, but it may come as a surprise that the $$ is made the other way.  Europeans (including various islanders) absolutely love guns and want ours...so I've been told.

While I'm on this fine single malt Scotch whisky jag and shooting off my big mouth I might as well tell you gun guys something.  In Albania you can buy anything in semi-open bazaars.  I mean anything.  Including bazookas and RPG's.  In bulk, if you have hard cash and a truck.  It's cash and carry, only.

But, you say, how do you get them from point A to point B.  That, my friends, is the secret that makes one an international entrepreneur and the other a mere member of the unsuspecting masses.

I will tell you this much.  Many international businessmen make a trip to the Dalmatian coast where the Albanians offer their wares.  It's a simple drive to Zurich, Belgrade, Sarajevo, Trieste, Prague, fill in the blank, and a 15 minute job to load a perma-box in the train station with all the stuff you'll need for your next business trip.  Jut don't lose the key. 

Why would I tell you all this?   It's no secret. Interpol even knows about it.  Incidentally, we should be interfacing more with Interpol, a class outfit, in the war on terrorism.  We're just talking about our hobby, and the police couldn't care less about us.  They are looking for people who want to blow us all up.  Cops and dealers usually get along fine, for a price.  It's the world we live in and it is great! JWHeckert