"Extended Side Panel" PB Sideplates

[Majorjoel]

First I was wondering what a quick and easy term is used to describe the side panels along a patch boxes lid that have stock wood showing between them. I have chosen extended PB sideplates to save a lot of descriptive  writting and would like anyones input for a better "short hand" term for this common 19th century practice. What is the eariest example of this extended PB sideplate treatment that is known? I have found pictures of a pair of rifles made by Peter Gonter circa dated no later than 1809. These are from the KRA book "Kentucky Rifles & Pistols 1750-1850".  The photo's are very small and one sided but to my one good eye appear to be rifles of quite a bit later date. This judgement is mostly based upon the extended PB feature. Does anyone have better pictures of either of these Peter Gonter rifles? It would be interesting to know if any ext. PB's were made anytime in the 18th century. 

[Eric Laird]

Joel,
Just my two cents (and probably not worth that!), but when I first read the title I immediately thought of the PBs that have their hinge limited to the width of the lid and the sideplates extended up past the hinge knuckle to meet the finial. After reading your post I realized you're talking about the kind that are typically seen on M. Fordney guns (among other makers). Would "displaced PB sideplate" work as a shorthand term since they're displaced from the common position alongside the lid? I dunno - but you're right, it might be easier to have an accepted term to describe it. I wonder how/if it was ever described in period terms.
We get some interesting questions and dive into minutia on this board - it's what makes it so educational and makes it my typical first stop on a Saturday morning drinking coffee! Thngs that make you go, "hmmmm..."
Eric

[Fullstock longrifle]

Joel,
I've just heard them referred to as open side panels on the patchbox, and that's the term I use.

Also, I usually associate that style side panel with being a slightly later feature on a longrifle.  You often see that type of patchbox on Lancaster rifles from the 1840 period (give or take). I've never seen a rifle with that feature that I would attribute to the 18th century.
 
Frank

[Majorjoel]

Thank you Eric and Frank for your input on this subject. I have a very curious nature when it comes to what I think is a major change in the way patch boxes were designed. Back in the day one of the gunsmith's apprentices desided he was tired of cutting out pierceings into sideplates and just used straight plates with a gap in between. He smiled ear to ear when he showed off his work to a half asleep master," look, two big pierceings," and nearly caught holy heck, except the customer was there and he liked it! Well, it could have went something like this! I just got to get out more.

[Majorjoel]

A few years later, the same apprentice, who was now a master journeyman was just about to leave the out house, when his pant leg got caught in the toilet seat lid.  Hmmmmmm...........

[JTR]

There’s at least one Dickert with highly arched ‘open side panels’. He croaked in 1822, so it must have been made before then.
John

[G-Man]

That really fine Richard Allen (Georgia) rifle recently put up on the Virtual Museum has them as well, and looks to be Ca. 1815.  Iron mounted to boot - the only iron mounted southern gun I've seen with a patchbox like that.

Guy