Author Topic: early germanic lock.  (Read 7028 times)

leviathan

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early germanic lock.
« on: February 20, 2016, 04:32:47 AM »
    looking to build a pre-rev 1760-1770 poor boy smooth rifle that has a Germanic lock which shows conversion to percussion. Can any of u suggest an early lock for this period ? What about the large Siler conversion with pan intact or the L&R with pan intact. Or, can any of the lock companies work with their early germanic locks and convert it for me?
     My premise is this-pre Rev north Carolina piedmont backcountry settler all-around defense and hunting gun.  A gun bought down the Great Wagon Road from where the settler was originally from, Pennsylvania. This new settler could have settled anywhere from the Yadkin Valley to Johnston County in the mid-part of NC.
      This poor family continued using the gun through the years by converting to cap and ball.


Thanks for the help ;D
     

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2016, 05:13:59 AM »
The Chambers golden age conversion would be a good choice.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2016, 05:42:12 AM »
I would go with a earlier lock than a golden age style lock. I dont know if the Dale Johnson lock that Chambers sells is earlier but thats the one I was thinking of. Is the early Ketland of that time frame?

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2016, 06:14:19 AM »
I would go with a earlier lock than a golden age style lock. I dont know if the Dale Johnson lock that Chambers sells is earlier but thats the one I was thinking of. Is the early Ketland of that time frame?
yes, there are probably better style locks you could use however, the golden age conversion
is already a percussion. If you buy a flint it will cost $65 more and then you will have to buy a percussion
hammer then convert it to percussion. The golden age lock is a 1770 era lock, so it fits the time period
with a lot less hassle for $110.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 06:16:40 AM by flinchrocket »

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2016, 06:23:14 AM »
Good point Flinchrocket, I wasn't aware of that date for the lock you mentioned. From what I have been told, thats a good quality lock to boot and the conversion, as you noted is already done.

leviathan

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2016, 06:34:25 AM »
Thanks guys for info!!! what about the MGS classic? I think its on the RE davis web site and  it lists date from 1750-1760s as correct time period for this lock. It also has a conversion. Would love to hear your thots on this.  Thanks again ;)

leviathan

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2016, 06:39:03 AM »
Sorry guys, meant to say M & G classic with a time period 1750-1770s. What say ye?

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2016, 06:50:20 AM »
Leviathan: That might be a good choice but I personally know nothing about that lock. I'm sure others here will have an opinion though.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2016, 08:05:43 AM »
Leviathan, the M&G Classic looks just like the golden age conversion, cost $15 more and would have to be
darn good to be better than a Chambers lock.
              Something else to keep in mind, if you really want it to look like a conversion,you will have to
put a notch in the lock moulding for a flintlock cock and maybe bring the wood up behind where the fence
on the pan would have been. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you to have something else to
ponder.

leviathan

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2016, 03:09:45 PM »
Flinchrocket, forgive my ignorance but I am somewhat new to building guns. Could you please explain to this simple mind a litter better about what you are talking about? And, thank you for the added extra instructions and advice.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2016, 05:45:07 PM »
Just trying to save you $15 for a lock. The Chambers golden age conversion and the M&G Classic are both
what are called the hand forged design. Personally, I don't like surprises when it comes to buying gun
parts so I would take the Chambers lock , not because it's $15 less. I know what I will get if I buy a Jim Chambers lock and it has a lifetime warranty. Hope this cleared things up for you.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2016, 05:59:39 PM »
 I think you also might think about the reaction you will get when you get around other builders, and shooters. Germanic locks are not unheard of on Southern guns, but are quite rare. So, in my opinion you should either make a Pennsylvania shimmel, or a Southern poor boy, just to save yourself the inevitable conflict you will encounter at events. Another point is it will be much harder to sell in the future, with a conveluted provenance.

  Hungry Horse

Offline T*O*F

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2016, 07:35:37 PM »
I did this Lancaster about 15 years ago using the conversion lock.  Customer supplied all the parts and the project was passed on to me from another maker who developed health problems


Dave Kanger

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Offline Pete G.

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2016, 08:22:57 PM »
L&R also lists a percussion conversion of their classic lock. I used one for a build once and it worked well.

Offline Stophel

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2016, 08:43:23 PM »
Your historical problem will be the "Pre-Revolutionary poor boy".
Your other problem is why on earth would anyone want to convert a flintlock gun to per-cussed??????

 ;D
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2016, 09:33:28 PM »
Leviathan, the M&G Classic looks just like the golden age conversion, cost $15 more and would have to be
darn good to be better than a Chambers lock.
              Something else to keep in mind, if you really want it to look like a conversion,you will have to
put a notch in the lock moulding for a flintlock cock and maybe bring the wood up behind where the fence
on the pan would have been. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you to have something else to
ponder.

The notch in the moulding does not need to be there if the plate is inlet correctly, at least when it comes to the earlier style anyway.
Psalms 144

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2016, 12:11:10 AM »
Quote
"Pre-Revolutionary poor boy".
Yep, I agree, probably have to settle for a oct-round smooth bore/smooth rifle similiar to these, one by Don Bruton shown on the GON (Georgia Outdoor News) http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=494764forum

Or this one he carries in his video:

Dennis
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 12:13:50 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2016, 03:28:53 AM »
An early germanic lock looks nothing like a Siler or Golden Age.   I would suggest that if you want an early germanic percussion conversion, you convert a Chambers Early Germanic to percussion.   That said,  I would be hard pressed to do that to such a beautiful flintlock.

Offline Dan'l 1946

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2016, 03:44:20 AM »
Your historical problem will be the "Pre-Revolutionary poor boy".
Your other problem is why on earth would anyone want to convert a flintlock gun to per-cussed??????

 ;D
         That was my first thought too. Once you have a high quality flintlock, it seems like converting it to percussion would be a waste of time. Jim's early Germanic lock would be my choice for a very early longrifle. His gunsmith's lock---with the unshaped plate---might be a good second choice.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2016, 07:33:34 AM »
Leviathan, the Davis Colonial would be another good choice.  But conversion will require you getting
a percussion hammer with the right throw.  The rest of the conversion would be pretty easy. You say the gun will have come down from Pennsylvania and you want a poor boy smooth rifle.  Three originals come to mind.

 One is a very plain, uncarved Lancaster rifle George Shumway wrote up in Muzzle Blasts May 1988. It has no sideplate, is a smooth rifle.  Brass buttplate and guard, sliding wooden patchbox.  Probably 1770s.

Another was featured by Shumway in MB in Nov 1982. This has an octagon to round .67 barrel currently 36" long. It has an elementary 2 piece brass patchbox. The only carving is around the tang. It's a nice looking early gun.  

RCA 19 is a an early, pretty smooth rifle, only having a volute carved behind the cheekpiece.  Leave off the carving and engraving and you've got a plain but impressive pre-Revolutionary War smooth rifle.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 04:03:47 PM by rich pierce »
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Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2016, 05:07:00 PM »
Quote
An early germanic lock looks nothing like a Siler or Golden Age.
Not sure I agree with this. Look at the original lock on Reaves Goehring's "Feather Rifles" looks very much like a Siler except its a little longer.
Dennis
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Offline flinchrocket

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Re: early germanic lock.
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 08:38:01 PM »
R.E. Davis makes his jaeger lock in percussion,with a little shaping on the tale it would make an early
smooth rifle. Well, l guess the shape of the tail is a personal preference,but I would shorten it about 1/8 inch and a little more pointed.
            
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 08:47:51 PM by flinchrocket »