Problem with Hoppes 9 plus

[Roger B]

I have a couple of barrels that love 9 plus and 11.5 oz denim, but strange things happen with a final cleaning for the day.  Both barrels are hooked breech and I like to give them a bucket bath with soapy water and a plain water rinse.  Everything works fine until I use some dry patches to soak up the excess water.  They come out covered with dark black crud as if I had not done any cleaning at all.  Anyone else had this happen?  Do you have to use the Hoppes exclusively for cleaning as well as shooting?
Roger B.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I have had the black streaks when drying the bore with dry patch as well. I have seen it happen even when I didn't use Hoppes it's a little shocking. When it does happen I just give the bore an additional rinse and it seems to go away.

After a couple of dry patches to soak up excess water I spray a liberal shot of WD-40 directly into the bore and follow it with a dry patch. No need to get it squeaky dry with the dry patch the WD-40 is made for that. Then stand the barrel muzzle down on a rag while I attend to the lock. By the time I get back to the barrel the WD-40 is mostly evaporated and a dry patch comes out clean as a whistle. Then I give it a good oil with Rem Oil and it's done.

I think it's either a transfer of metal from the barrel grabbing onto a damp patch or some fouling that didn't dissolve. In either case it doesn't seem to persist after the second rinse, and it doesn't happen all the time. Inspection with a bore light doesn't show any dirt in the bore. Mirror Brite.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

By a 'bath', do you mean just adding water to the bore, or do you mean a thorough scrubbing with a tight patched jag, in the bucket?

[Roger B]

Tightly patched jag in the bucket.  It clears up if I go back and reclean with the Hoppes.  I've never had this happen before with any other product.
Roger B

[Sharpsman]

Hoppe's is an 'oil based' product which will promote baked on fouling in blackpowder rifle bores! Use virgin olive oil instead or canola oil!

[WaterFowl]

Seasons your barrel....Duck n run!!

[hanshi]

I've used Hoppes BP lube for years and never experienced a problem such as you describe.  I also use WD40 after wet patching/drying.  If anything remains in the bore, the WD40 seems to lift it out.  I've never had the "crud" problem from using Hoppes.  Also I only lube prb with Hoppes and don't use it as a cleaning agent.  Barricade is applied at the end of a cleaning and the gun is checked again the next day, then the next week and fairly frequently from then on.

[Robby]

Roger, Is the patched Jag hard to pull out as the bore gets dryer, and is the residue not so much crud, but deeply embedded smearing on the patch? I have had this happen and setting the dampish patches aside they will turn rust colored. I suspect it to be some form of oxidation that I can't explain. sometimes the patched jag is hard to pull out, spray a little WD-40 down the bore and it slides right out. I have even gone back in with a bore brush and scrubbed it but good and when I get to that point where the bore is almost dry the same condition occurs. I use water or moose milk at room temperature for my cleaning. Again, I think it is some form of oxidation, but I can't explain it.
Robby

[longcruise]

I have seen a similar result after using it as a patch lube.  My drying patches have pulled a dark reddish brown out of the bore after the he bore has been pretty well dried out. I never have used it for Anything but a lube.  And, no, it's not flash rust.  I clean with warm tap water that quickly cools as the barrel is cleaned.

It has more the look and feel of some sort of petroleum product deposit and the color is similar to the color of the lube itself only darker.  I only get this goomba when using the Hoppe's.

Solved the problem by quitting it's use!

[OldMtnMan]

I never understood using WD-40 in the bore of BP guns? It's a petroleum product. I'm sure most of us know petroleum products don't mix well with black powder.

[Daryl]

I never understood using WD-40 in the bore of BP guns? It's a petroleum product. I'm sure most of us know petroleum products don't mix well with black powder.

You are right, Pete - but - we do not use WD40 for cleaning or as a patch lube.

WD-40 is used AFTER the barrel, then the bore has been dried, as a last effect water/moisture displacing lubricant and for us in the dry North, it is all we use for a rust preventative/storage oil. Rifle stored muzzle down until it's used again- which is usually the next weekend if it' my little 14 bore.

My last drying patch, the one that is GRABBY coming out will have some grey-ish to dark streaks on it. This is steel or oxidized steel 'wash' actually being drawn out of the bore as that tight grabby 'last' patch comes out.  Then like the other guys here, I hose down the bore with a fairly long blast of WD-40 (Water Displaceing-40), then use a new patch to patch out the excess, blasting it out the nipple seat or vent - then use that patch, unfolded to wipe down the barrel. That WD-40 patch has absolutely NO grey or black colour on it form the bore - white (but wet) as it was when ripped from the bolt of flannel I tore it from.  I do like Flannel cloth or Flannelette (baby-diaper-type) cloth for cleaning. We size the jags to fit doubled Flannel coth in the bore - the doubled cloth gets into every groove and groove's corners for perfect cleaning.

With the water method we use for cleaning (I use a small stainless pail I bought at Princess Auto) the drying patches are only that - drying patches.  They are not cleaning patches.  The bore is cleaned with a single patch on the rod, pumping up and down the bore with water flushing in and out through the ignition orifice.  Thus, only 4 or 5 patches are needed for cleaning a rifle & it only takes about 5 to 8 minutes including the lock. ALL of my modern rifles take longer to clean (properly), than any of my ML's.

[hammer]

A bronze brush every time.    I have never understood why so many question its use.   A good clean with patches and favourite solvent then a good scrub with the brush.   You will be surprised what comes out with the next patches.   Repeat till the patches come out clean.  Don't forget to clean the brush each time or you will be transferring fouling back into the bore.   I always finish up with a good wipe with a WD40 patch, very wet, then dry patches, followed by a good swab with gun oil.

 If the brush is tight just turn it in the bore to extract it.
Some have complained of a the fear of the brush coming adrift in the bore.   If it ever should just make a simple hook out of a length of fence wire, push it down through the brush and drag it out.  Or push a length of tube down the bore and over the brush.  The brush will sit in the tube and can be lifted out.  So no reason to be concerned.

[longcruise]

On occasion I've used a brush but I favor the nylon bristle type.

[OldMtnMan]

I never understood using WD-40 in the bore of BP guns? It's a petroleum product. I'm sure most of us know petroleum products don't mix well with black powder.

You are right, Pete - but - we do not use WD40 for cleaning or as a patch lube.

WD-40 is used AFTER the barrel, then the bore has been dried, as a last effect water/moisture displacing lubricant and for us in the dry North, it is all we use for a rust preventative/storage oil. Rifle stored muzzle down until it's used again- which is usually the next weekend if it' my little 14 bore.

My last drying patch, the one that is GRABBY coming out will have some grey-ish to dark streaks on it. This is steel or oxidized steel 'wash' actually being drawn out of the bore as that tight grabby 'last' patch comes out.  Then like the other guys here, I hose down the bore with a fairly long blast of WD-40 (Water Displaceing-40), then use a new patch to patch out the excess, blasting it out the nipple seat or vent - then use that patch, unfolded to wipe down the barrel. That WD-40 patch has absolutely NO grey or black colour on it form the bore - white (but wet) as it was when ripped from the bolt of flannel I tore it from.  I do like Flannel cloth or Flannelette (baby-diaper-type) cloth for cleaning. We size the jags to fit doubled Flannel coth in the bore - the doubled cloth gets into every groove and groove's corners for perfect cleaning.

With the water method we use for cleaning (I use a small stainless pail I bought at Princess Auto) the drying patches are only that - drying patches.  They are not cleaning patches.  The bore is cleaned with a single patch on the rod, pumping up and down the bore with water flushing in and out through the ignition orifice.  Thus, only 4 or 5 patches are needed for cleaning a rifle & it only takes about 5 to 8 minutes including the lock. ALL of my modern rifles take longer to clean (properly), than any of my ML's.

I understand, but the WD-40 is leaving a film of oil after it dries. You can swab it out of the bore before shooting, but it's in the breech channel.

I guess it works ok, or you guys wouldn't be doing it. I just feel funny about using any petroleum products.

[Hungry Horse]

Isn't Hoppe's 9 a solvent for smokeless powder? If so it has nothing to do with black powder. Water, dry patches, and a good quality gun oil should be enough.

  Hungry Horse

[Leatherbark]

Hoppes 9 Plus has kerosene in it. It says it on the bottle or used to.  I'm going downstairs to look but my instincts are usually right. 

Bob

[hanshi]

The Hoppes #9 we're speaking of is the BP lube and NOT the smokeless cleaner.  It's water based as well as having kerosene in it.  Your problem doesn't come from lubing patches with Hoppes; it comes from something else.  I finish up with Barricade which dries in the bore.  It can be brushed out prior to shooting but that isn't necessary.  Don't lube patches with WD40.  I also use WD40 as the last step in drying out the last vestiges of moisture and then alcohol it out before applying Barricade.  Oil is oil and there are differences between the various types.  Crisco comes to mind as one that really gums up a bore.

[Topknot]

Roger, I have had no problem the way I clean and treat a barrel. I use tepid water and scrub with a patch or two then I rinse with more tepid water. then I turn muzzle down on pad for a minute or so then final rinse with isopropyl  alcohol to help in drying up the barrel and then double patch a couple of times with dry patches Then I run a  ballistol  patch down the bore and pump it a few times and It is good to go until next time. If I am planning on storing the gun for extended periods I grease the bore with Rig grease. Also I store in gun safe with the muzzle down to avoid a build-up in the breech area.

                                                                                            topknot

[Sharpsman]

Take a few nails, put them in a Mason jar and spray with WD-40. Put away and go back in 30 days and take a look! Let me know what you find!!

[Dewey]

In case anyone is interested, here are the ingredients for the Hoppes BP solvent:
 
1 Water
2 Process Oil  7 - 13 %
3 Ethyl Alcohol  5 - 10 %
4 Kerosene  5 - 10 %
5 Oleic Acid
6 Triethanolamine  1 - 5 %
7 Amyl Acetate  1 - 5 %
8 Methyl Salicylate

The oleic acid is an emulsifying agent to get the water and oil/kerosene to mix, the amyl acetate and methyl salicylate are there for the smell (banana mixed with oil of wintergreen - whatever!). The TEA is a strong base (to neutralize the OA?) and another surfactant. As usual for BP, the main cleaning ingredient is water!


Myself, I use warm water with a bit of Murphy's, then rinse with more warm water (scrubbing both times with patches, of course), dry with a couple or three patches, then use a patch of either WD40 or isopropanol to help remove any remaining water after cleaning (I am tending to use the rubbing alcohol more now and save the WD40 for squeaky hinges,lol ). I use dry patches to remove the IPA or WD40 (and hopefully the last of the water), then use Barricade for protection (or RIG if longer term storage). I swab with a patch of IPA to get the Barricade out before my first load, where I use spit or TOW Mink oil on the patch.