How to personalize a Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle kit

[Chowmi]

Gents,

I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of my Kibler SMR kit, and have thoughts of how to take this wonderful kit and make it my own in an historically correct way.  Reading posts here, it would seem that many of us are also going to build one, and I thought that since this is a group of craftsmen, it might be nice to discuss how to put our personal touch on the rifle in a historically correct way.  

I'm out of my depth here on southern mountain rifles and hope to generate discussion and find resources.

Jim has provided guidance on how we might do it, and on from whom he modeled the kit.  I'd like to hear how the members might expand on that.  I must admit, that my area of study has been on Pennsylvania built rifles, and I am struggling to find examples of the school of Southern Mountain Rifles from which to draw my inspiration.

I understand that many southern rifles in existence are unsigned, and difficult to date, so I find myself struggling to find an example to copy or emulate.  

My hope is that this thread will generate discussion on appropriate ways to personalize this gun.  

All opinions welcome,
Cheers,
Norm

[Kingsburyarms]

+1 - Would like to see options and examples as well...

[thimble rig]

Go to the museum on here and look at those rifles they have posted on southern rifles.They have rifles to pick from.Some are carved,they have different  style patch boxes.You could put bone or horn inlays on them.Pour a pewter cap.All kinds of things you can to do them.

[Mike Brooks]

Use the library here on the board, tons of examples there for FREE. Or you could do like us old timers did and invest in some books......
Our  Exalted Grand Poobah even sells a book on NC built Gillespie Mt. rifles....what a co-inky dink..... he'll probably want you to pay for it, he's like that.....
Jerry Noble sells an incredible FOUR volumes on the subject. He still thinks he should get paid for his books too
The late John Bivens has a book out there, He's passed so he don't care if you buy his book or not.
I just bought William Ivey's book on NC rifles, lots of Mt. rifles in there. Of course I actually had to pay money for it.....

[oldtravler61]

This hurts..... good advice Mike!  Also check out the (show me your squirrel rifle) lots of ideas there.

[art riser]

What Mike said.

[moleeyes36]

Chowmi,

The William Ivey book "North Carolina Schools of Longrifles 1765-1865" shows the rifle on which Jim based his SMR kit.  My copy is over in my shop at the moment, as I recall rifle #207 is the one.  But then again like many of us here, I have CRS.  Also, like Mike said there are a lot of other NC rifles pictured in there.   

Mole Eyes

[frogwalking]

Another book that might be of interest is by John Rice Irwin of the Museum of Appalachia fame.  It is "Guns and Gunmaking Tools of Southern Appalachia".  It is a strange little book, but one I have gone back and re-read several times.

[bama]

I find this a strange request. You ask how to personalize a rifle or anything for that matter, in my way of thinking nobody but you can do that. I know that you are probably just trying to get a good thread going and it would be one I think that there will be some interest in as Jim starts delivering the parts. So please don't take offence at the rest of my post it is not intended to offend.

There is alot of reference material available in book form and on the net to go to for ideas and a good bit on this forum.

Jim has provided a product that is allmost complete, 99.9% of the hard work is complete all that is left is the gravy. Most of these rifles had little ornamentation on them, maybe  a half moon or something similar on the cheek piece so that is a pretty simple choice and this will be a great looking rifle. I can also see some here on this board taking Jim's product and making an absolute stunner of a show piece with carving and inlay work. These rifles will also be great looking and be correct in my opinion. Then there is going to be the guy that just takes Jim's little rifle that does a good job in assembling the parts and puts a great finish on it and it is going to be an a great rifle. In my opinion whatever you do to it, unless you are a real hack, this rifle is going to look great.

So let you imagination run as wild or as tame as you feel and make it yours. I for one am excited about all of the grand rifles that you and the others will produce using Jim's product. I may even try one of these myself one day.

Good Luck

[Chowmi]

Thanks all for the point out on the books, I will look for them.

I guess I could have been more specific (it was 3AM and a few beers in when I wrote the post...).

 I have looked through the ALR virtual library, but was hoping to narrow it down a bit.  The library has several Southern Rifles in it, but I would assume that a Southern Mountain Rifle is a more specific subset of Southern Rifles.  The library does not distinguish among the variations in Southern Rifles. 

I had already thought about pouring a nose cap, and maybe a grease hole or patch box.   I didn't want to throw a bunch  of decoration on that was not appropriate for the school.

The point is, I am trying to educate myself on this school and so far have not been able to narrow it down.  I'll look for the books for sure.

Bama, no offense taken.  Maybe personalize wasn't the right word.  A better question would be "what decoration, ie. inlays, carving, engraving etc. would be appropriate for this rifle?"  I had somewhat assumed (very possibly wrongly) that most SMRs were generally unadorned. 

Cheers,
Norm

[louieparker]

Chowmi

Jim has created a wonderful as it is. But there are areas where you could add a few touches to make it "your" rifle. You could give some thought and research to adding a bit more lock bolt plate. There are several different designs that would look great and are pure southern or Tenn. Lots of this type rifles have silver plates inlet into the barrel. They have various information and designs engraved on them. A silver moon above the cheek piece or behind it would be appropriate.  A nice touch on a Tenn mountain rifle can be the toe plate.. It can be hinged about 3/4 of an inch from the butt plate and a lid about 2 1/2 inches long with a cavity below the lid. This makes a small patch box from the toe plate... Nice touch !
All mountain style rifles are not plain. Some have fore stock inlays as well as inlays in other places.. Just be sure that whatever you do is appropriate on this style rifle ...Louie
If you consider doing any of the above, please do your research or have your plan checked by someone who knows this type rifle.. Not just anything is appropriate on these rifles..

[Chowmi]

Louie,
thank you for the reply, that is quite helpful.  I did see an example with the small compartment on the toe plate.  Great idea.  I like the half moon inlay as well.

That gives me food for thought.

Cheers,
Chowmi

[Mike Brooks]

Here's a quote right from Mr. Kibler :

I'd like to also add, that this gun can be customized a bit as well.   A grease hole or patchbox could be added.  A nose cap (poured or sheet metal) could be fit,  A few moldings could be cut on the cheek piece, some moldings  could be added to the buttplate and ramrod pipes, a silver name plate could be added to the barrel etc.  The gun could be finished up in an "as new" fashion or it could be heavily aged.  There are many possibilities for sure...

This is a Mt. rifle from the area of west NC or East  TN, mostly identifiable from the trigger guard. It should reflect a gun that was built in that area...unless you don't really give a flip (you know, it's my gun and I'll screw it up if I want to sort of thing.). Then I'd suggest you cut out some inlays out of beer cans and nail them on....always wanted to do that....

IMO, which means very little, I'd stock it in  a high grade of maple and probably put on a steel nose cap and a sideplate that is appropriate for the school, and inlay a silver name plate in the barrel. You could always make an appropriate bananer patch box for it too. I wouldn't go much past that.

[louieparker]

Chowmi you mentioned a chevron nose cap.. They are great and certainly appropriate for this style rifle.. But !  If Jim has relieved the area at the muzzle for a metal nose cap, you might have a problem with the poured cap.  Louie

[Chowmi]

Mike,

I did see Jim's recommendation, as I mentioned in the original post, and I have been leaning towards keeping it simple, just as you said in your post.  No beer can inlays for me, I only drink good beer from bottles! 

I do indeed want to keep it in the appropriate style, and that is the crux of this entire thread.  I am trying to learn what the appropriate style is!!
Your statement that it is from west NC or east TN also helps quite a bit.  I am so unfamiliar with this area of gun smiths that I didn't even know where to start other than "in the south" which is way too broad.

I have been recommended some books and will get them (and pay for them!).  I'm happy to do the research work, I just needed a point in the right direction as to where to get the research materials.

Louie,
I can't tell from any of the pictures on his website if he has relieved the area for the nose cap or not.  I guess I'll have to wait and see.  Even if he has, I can do one without an exposed wood pattern.  Got plenty of Pewter left over from an Ohio rifle. 

thanks all,
Chowmi

[Pete G.]

Mike,

 I only drink good beer from bottles! 

You could always inlay one of the bottle caps for a thumbpiece.

[Chowmi]

Pete,
Now that's an idea I can drink to!!

I have now found some good examples and inspiration in the ALR library.  All the comments have helped me narrow down my search, which is good.

cheers,
Chowmi

[louieparker]

Chowmi
Sorry to say I didn't  recall how the  muzzle end was made. But after I made that statement I thought it might be made without a nose cap. In which case the chevron would work well..  I had even forgot Jims statement that Mike posted..
Anything over thirty minute old seems to seep out of my mind...This could be a good learning experience for you.  You could become the next  "expert" on East Tenn. rifles.  Take your time and look at a lot of photos or rifles.        LP

[Kermit]

What Mike Brooks said. Cain't add to it. KISS, maybe without the final "S." No need to be offensive; there's enoung of that going around. And, what kind of beer?

[Bob Roller]

Mike,

I did see Jim's recommendation, as I mentioned in the original post, and I have been leaning towards keeping it simple, just as you said in your post.  No beer can inlays for me, I only drink good beer from bottles! 

I do indeed want to keep it in the appropriate style, and that is the crux of this entire thread.  I am trying to learn what the appropriate style is!!
Your statement that it is from west NC or east TN also helps quite a bit.  I am so unfamiliar with this area of gun smiths that I didn't even know where to start other than "in the south" which is way too broad.

I have been recommended some books and will get them (and pay for them!).  I'm happy to do the research work, I just needed a point in the right direction as to where to get the research materials.

Louie,
I can't tell from any of the pictures on his website if he has relieved the area for the nose cap or not.  I guess I'll have to wait and see.  Even if he has, I can do one without an exposed wood pattern.  Got plenty of Pewter left over from an Ohio rifle. 

thanks all,
Chowmi

The only suggestion I would make on Jim Kibler's kit would be to make it available with no cuts
or shapes for a butt plate for those like me who prefer such a rifle without one.
These rifles were originally born out of need for a hunting gun and a one shot protection for the house.
Some of them I know had recycled barrels and the rest was whatever expediency allowed. I saw one years ago in Farris's shop in Portsmouth that had a screen door pull for a trigger guard and the trigger was formed from a large flat nail.The lock (flint) was an antique about like a Maslin. The barrel had the rod pipes soldered to the bottom flat and the rod held the barrel to the stock.It had an "S" on the top flat and nothing else.
The primitive conditions that spawned these guns if a testimony to the ingenuity of the people that made them
and I have always liked them as much as the fine London made 1000 yard match rifles. THERE are two extremes for sure.
Going off topic for exteremes, we had a friend in Florida who passed away Labor Day of 2015 that had a small group of old cars.He had a 1913 Ford Model "T" setting beside of his 1934 Supercharged Duesenberg phaeton and said that the Ford put America on wheels and the Duesenberg made driving fun.

Bob Roller

[Mike Brooks]

Bob, Dennis Glazener offers a NC Mt. rifle kit with out the buttplate. i'm going to put one together in the next couple months I hope.
http://americanlongrifles.org/gillespierifles.com/index.html

Ooops.....I suppose this is Kibler's thread after all...

[Jim Kibler]

I'm glad to see you're excited about the kits.  There certainly are lots of possibilities.  This gun is based on the work of Joseph Whitson from Western North Carolina.  So looking at other mountain rifles from this area or even Eastern Tennessee would be a good start. 

The kit is not inlet for a nose cap, so a decorative poured cap would work well.  A simple box would also be a nice addition.   With care and consideration the gun could even be decorated up a fair bit and still work well.  So as others have mentioned study, study, study.  A great place to start is the work of Whitson.  I'll to get some pictures of his work posted soon.

I'm working on putting together a batch of 50 or 60 set triggers right now.  They're getting there, but doing anything 50 or 60 times over does't happen  quickly!  I"m still working to ship the first ones out next week.  So those who ordered early should be seeing them before too long.  I'll be in touch with those of you pretty soon.

It will be loads of fun to see the finished projects.  Might be nice to post some of them here. 

I like the idea of aging one up all old and nasty looking.  Just need to find the time!

Thanks everybody,
Jim