Santa Fe Hawken

[Lampro]

I recently got an Allen Arms "Santa Fe" Hawken style rifle. I've only shot it a few times but it seems that after 3 or 4 shots it gets extremely difficult to get the ball to go down the last several inches of the barrel. I have been shooting black powder revolvers for about a year but I am fairly new to bp rifles. I did not have this problem with my first 2 rifles, T/C "Hawken's" in .45 and .50 calibers. Can anyone tell me why it's so difficult to get the ball seated in this Santa Fe Hawken?

[RichG]

load data? new barrel, old rough barrel? what were you shooting in the t/c's.

[One Shot]

What are you using for powder and lube?

[Hungry Horse]

 The problem you are having is that the gun you have was built in .53 cal. but marked .54 cal.. I owned one of the one in one thousand models with a serial #less than 200. I got it cheap because the owner, had won it at a rendezvous, and couldn't make it shoot, and had a hard time loading it. A little research disclosed the problem. I bought a .520 RB. mold, and the problems were solved. These guns actually shoot very well, and can usually be bought cheap, because everyone tries to shoot .530 balls in them.

    Hungry Horse

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I bought a Lyman .526" ball mold for mine...a good shooter.

[Lampro]

The bore is bright and shiny with no rust or pitting that I can see. It was used when I got it but it looks almost brand new. There's a little bit of rust on the butt plate. Inside the lock is very clean, no rust. I haven't taken the trigger out. About the only reason I can tell it's been fired is because the dovetailed front sight has been adjusted and the finish on the ramrod is is worn.

I know about them being an odd caliber because I had read about these rifles before I bought it. I am using Goex 2F 50 to 60 grains and .520 Hornady round ball. For patches and lube I was using .015 blue striped patches with no lube on them and just rubbing them in a bowl of home made lamb tallow/beeswax.

Could it just be that there was simply not enough lube on the patches? When I was shooting the T/C's I used essentially the same load(except .440, .490 and .495 balls) but I had soaked the patches in the lube while it was still melted.

[bigsmoke]

For repeated shots fired from the line, I really do not care much for a grease lube.

Either saliva or whichever liquid patch lube you prefer (I like Ol' Thunder) will probably solve your problem.  Go with a moderately wet patch and see how it works.

FWIW, in my shooting with .54's, I have found that my slow twist barrels seem to like between 80 and 85 grains of Ffg powder.  But only bench sessions with your rifle will tell what your rifle likes.

John

PS:  I have sold many of those rifles in the past and they were all really good shooters, from what I heard.

[Daryl]

Elaborating on Taylor's post, a .526" Lyman mould, dead soft lead and a 10 ounce denim patch = perfection.

 I measure 10 ounce denim as .0225" compressed in my caliper jaws with the jaws held between forefinger finger and thumb, not on the push wheel.

[OldMtnMan]

The bore is bright and shiny with no rust or pitting that I can see. It was used when I got it but it looks almost brand new. There's a little bit of rust on the butt plate. Inside the lock is very clean, no rust. I haven't taken the trigger out. About the only reason I can tell it's been fired is because the dovetailed front sight has been adjusted and the finish on the ramrod is is worn.

I know about them being an odd caliber because I had read about these rifles before I bought it. I am using Goex 2F 50 to 60 grains and .520 Hornady round ball. For patches and lube I was using .015 blue striped patches with no lube on them and just rubbing them in a bowl of home made lamb tallow/beeswax.

Could it just be that there was simply not enough lube on the patches? When I was shooting the T/C's I used essentially the same load(except .440, .490 and .495 balls) but I had soaked the patches in the lube while it was still melted.

Are you sure you're not using a Hornady .530 ball? They don't make a .520.

[David Rase]

The bore is bright and shiny with no rust or pitting that I can see. It was used when I got it but it looks almost brand new. There's a little bit of rust on the butt plate. Inside the lock is very clean, no rust. I haven't taken the trigger out. About the only reason I can tell it's been fired is because the dovetailed front sight has been adjusted and the finish on the ramrod is is worn.

I know about them being an odd caliber because I had read about these rifles before I bought it. I am using Goex 2F 50 to 60 grains and .520 Hornady round ball. For patches and lube I was using .015 blue striped patches with no lube on them and just rubbing them in a bowl of home made lamb tallow/beeswax.

Could it just be that there was simply not enough lube on the patches? When I was shooting the T/C's I used essentially the same load(except .440, .490 and .495 balls) but I had soaked the patches in the lube while it was still melted.

Are you sure you're not using a Hornady .530 ball? They don't make a .520.

TOTW advertises .520 Hornady round balls, 100 to the box.
David

[Lampro]

Yes, I'm definitely using Hornady .520 that I got from Tack of the Wolf. I initially got some .530 balls locally because I thought they might work with some "Santa Fe's" but they didn't fit and I ordered some .520's from TOTW and also some TOTW cast .526 but I haven't tried the .526 yet.

[bigsmoke]

FWIW, I think the only way I ever got a .530 to work in one of those was with a .005 patch.
And yes, Hornady does indeed make a .520 ball.  At least they used to.
John

[OldMtnMan]

Yes, TOW does list them and MidWay does too. Confusing, because Hornady doesn't list them on their web site. I should have researched it better. I just checked the Hornady site, because I had never seen the .520 ball in any store. Oh well. Live and learn.

[Daryl]

I have a piece of a .530 barrel on my flint pistol, from one of those Santa-Fe Hawkens.  The original owner had rung the barrel and Taylor re-barreled it for him with a Getz, Rice or some other make.
The bore is tight and in it, I use a .526" ball from a Lyman mould.
The rifling twist is either 1 in 60 or 66". I use a thin .020", 8 ounce denim patch and 50 to 55gr. 3F.  Even though the twist is slow, it shoots well.

[RichG]

thicker patch(.020-.025) and 3f with a liquid lube if you're looking for a target load. 50-60 gr 2f is a very light load. sometimes if the load isn't heavy enough to bump up the ball you will need a tight patch/ball combo to make it shoot. your tallow lube would be great for a hunting lube. 80-100gr of 2f or 3f should be in the ball park.

[hammer]

Tight patch/ball combination and wet patches.   In mine I use .520 balls with a pillow ticking patch soaked in Neatsfoot Oil to fill the deep rifling.    Use the patches wet, not damp.    70-80 grains of a medium grain powder out to 150 yards.   And don't forget to mark the ramrod at the muzzle to show the depth with the first ball seated.   There will be resistance near the breach after the first and subsequent shots, don't want to assume fully seated when not.
Good luck.

[Ky-Flinter]

......after 3 or 4 shots it gets extremely difficult to get the ball to go down the last several inches of the barrel......

The barrel could have pitting that is holding fouling in that area.  With the barrel clean, drop a bore light down the tube and have a look.  Sometimes you can see the breech end better if you insert the light lighted end first.

If the breech area looks good.  A tighter patch/ball combo and wet liquid lubed patches as mentioned above will likely cure the ill.

-Ron

[Lampro]

I finally got a chance to try some of the suggestions offer by you folks. I also bought a solid brass range rod that is much stronger than the one I was using, made by one of the guys in our local muzzle loading club. I used patches wet with Ballistol and water and .520 balls and it was much easier to seat them. I want to try the Neatsfoot oil when I can order some. Thanks for all the advice.