Author Topic: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes  (Read 11143 times)

Offline moleeyes36

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Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« on: March 23, 2016, 01:35:06 AM »
I managed to get gallon of www fluid rated to -27 F.  That's not an easy task in the Deep South.  Don Steele has some neets foot oil and I have some castor oil.  We thought we'd do some experimenting with the www straight and some mixed with the neets foot oil and some with the castor oil.  Some of you guys have talked about mixing www and neets foot oil.  What was the ratio of www to oil that you used?  That data can be used for a baseline from which we can start experimenting.  Thanks.

Mole Eyes
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ranger76

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2016, 07:08:33 PM »
I use just wwf straight and have since the 70s without any problems. It works great here we can get-40,
I think yours will work fine. Good shooting Lorne 

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2016, 07:13:08 PM »
I use just wwf straight and have since the 70s without any problems. It works great here we can get-40,
I think yours will work fine. Good shooting Lorne 

What is wwfluid?Isopropyl and food coloring with water? Doesn't sound like any lube to me.

Bob Roller

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2016, 09:00:28 PM »
I use just wwf straight and have since the 70s without any problems. It works great here we can get-40,
I think yours will work fine. Good shooting Lorne  

What is wwfluid?Isopropyl and food coloring with water? Doesn't sound like any lube to me.

Bob Roller

Winter ww fluid is simply a readily available water-lube that doesn't freeze, which is important to them folks way up Norths.  Lubrication quality the same as spit I'd wager, which works for the spit-patchers with minimal POI shift (rather than switching to oil-based patch wetting compound).  

Oh but I see OP is planning to mix it up.  I don't know.  I don't go shooting with spitpatching in sub-freezing wx.  But my point is that "lube" really isn't important when there's no lead to steel contact.

Hey Daryl, what says ye?!

 ;D
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:04:39 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

Offline Daryl

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 09:02:42 PM »
It doesn't freeze, Bob. We call anything we put on patches, "Lube", spit, plain water, oils, greases, whatever. What this concotion does or doesn't do is freeze on the muzzle or part way down the bore when we are loading it, as spit or plain water does during the "cooler" months, up here, so we started using winter windshield washer fluid + a bit of oil many years ago and if it ain't broke - kind of thing.

Some guys were using Windex, but that was a lot more expensive than WWWF. A gallon lasts a whole year, or more depending on the amount of shooting one does, of course.

I use pre-cut, pre-lubed patches nowadays, although I used to always cut at the muzzle, long time ago when I had lots of spit. Now, I find it's easier to use precuts, prelubed.

The mount of oil introduced will vary with each person - I add the oil as it seems to slow the evapouration in the summer time and will remain in the patch to help 'lube' if the patches do dry somewhat.  Having the lubed patches stored in a more water proof container in the summer time is a good idea - Speer bullet boxes in the smaller sizes work very well but are bright yellow plastic, a bit hard on the eyes.

I use about 1 ounce of oil per 10 ounces of liquid.  Shake to blend then pour over the patches - pour out the excess back into the bottle, gently squeeze out the excess with a finger and pour that back into the bottle- done.  The patches are wet, but not dripping-out-of-the-box & into the pouch-type wet, but wet.  If you are getting crunchy loading, your patch is too thin or not enough lube to clean each shot previously fired.  

Note- If I had to wait 10 or 15 minutes between shots, I'd probably wipe the bore between shots when using water based lubes. If using oils or greases, I'd re-load right away and not have trouble with dried fouling.  After the shot is fired, the fouling is soft, due to moisture from the previous shot. Reloading with a wet patch is easy as the fouling (of previous shot) is not completely dry and the wet patch easily pushes the previous shot's fouling down the bore.

Note, also - you can actually have a load combination that seemingly shoots "cleanly" with no fouling buildup yet is still blowing by slightly (brown scorch streaks on the patch from the grooves) or the patches are being stressed too much - ie: almost cut when loading, yet the load is not as accurate as it should be- as the patch is too thin.  

I found this with my new .50, using an 8 ounce denim which I measured at .020" & a .495 ball. The combination shot cleanly, but there was some blowby - visible by a couple brown scorch marks on picked up patches.  The next time out, I had switched to the heavier railroad ticking I measured at .0235", loading was still easy, patches were litterally re-useable, no scorch marks with perfect sealing & no stressing of the material by the lands upon loading.  Upon cleaning the rifle & lock in the small stainless bucket I'm suing now, mind you I only fired about 50 shots using 3drams of 2F and the combination noted, the water was just a light greyish and still quite clear.  I had fired the last load with about 15 or 20gr. of powder and a standard patched ball, thus cleaning out almost all of the fouling buildup in the breech area. The water only tasted slightly sulfurish - YES.

I currently use Sucrets tins along with the trackofthewolf fire-starter hinged boxes, their glasses boxes or the their (about 2 5/8"" dia.) snuff (or whatever they are) containers also make good patch containers for wet patches, especially for large patches.

I try to anticipate how many patches I'll need for any given 'shoot' and only lube up that number as applying lube several times increases the oil content with each re-application of 'lube' and thus has the possibility to change point of impact or accuracy.  Some guns, like my 14 bore, do not seem to care what lube or how much is there.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:04:30 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 09:40:08 PM »
 I just love all the "traditional " black powder shooters debating what the ingredients are in windshield washer fluid. Well I know pretty much whats in tallow, and I know it will work, because its been used for a couple of hundred years as patch lube.
  Shoot more, think less, and stay out of the auto parts store.

  Hungry Horse

Offline moleeyes36

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 12:51:37 AM »
I just love all the "traditional " black powder shooters debating what the ingredients are in windshield washer fluid. Well I know pretty much whats in tallow, and I know it will work, because its been used for a couple of hundred years as patch lube.
  Shoot more, think less, and stay out of the auto parts store.

  Hungry Horse

If only using tallow for a lube floats your boat, by all means paddle away.  However, I suspect that those who only shoot with tallow for a lube are a small minority.  Don't be afraid to try new things as others do, you might even learn something from it.

Mole Eyes
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NRA Chief Range Safety Officer

Offline Daryl

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 04:37:05 AM »
Absolutely tallow works, as does marmot or bear's oil, as-does Neetsfoot oil and Track's Mink Oil, any of which I have used for hunting bunnies or big game.

Oil's are messy on the hands and fingers & stocks when doing a lot of shooting.  Oils and greases work best for me for hunting, where few shots are fired- more of course when bunny hunting, less when moose of deer hunting so the oily fingers are not a problem.

The water based "lubes" are what works for a day's shooting, where one might shoot from 40 to 100 shots over the course of 3 to 4 hours.

I have used oils and greases for the trail walk, just to test out the viability of them for that purpose & their repeatability, shot to shot. I see little difference in cleanliness, ie: shot to shot loading without wiping, for me, the only real negative is the cost and oily hands - need a rag or something (coat) to wipe my hands on, is all.  The only 'difference' I noticed, is that with my smaller bored guns (.32, .40 and .45) shooting, more powder was needed to shoot as well and to shoot to the sights.  This is due to the slippy nature I assume, of the oils and greases compared to the water based lubes.
A gallon of WWWF is under $4.00.  A Can of Neetsfoot oil is $10.00 thus for $14.00 total, I am supplied with lube to shoot every Sunday as well as Hefely Creek and I will have Oil left over.

I could use tallow- it's just that I am out of tallow, bears oil or marmot oil and have been for many years - WWWF is available here at most gas stations & Neetsfoot oil is available at the "Tack" store or most Home or other Hardware stores, of which we have 7 or 8 in town.
Daryl

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Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 04:38:54 PM »
While we are at this. I have used Chicago an sometimes T.C. bore butter with no problems. Any input on these two lubes.  Oldtravler

Offline Daryl

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 06:30:21 PM »
Bore Butter, more correctly known as lip balm with camfor can build up in the grooves. I assume this happens with weak ball and patch (thin patches) combinations.
I have heard of this from more than one shooter, from more than one web site.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 06:30:44 PM by Daryl »
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2016, 08:29:04 PM »
It's very easy to use too much grease on a patch, be it natural, or otherwise. I like to treat my patches with melted tallow, or bore butter, and shake off any excess. I have never had any kind of build up in the riflings using this method.
 I think a lot of the problem is we just shoot more rounds at a time, compared to the old timers. Many of us think nothing of going to the range and shooting twenty-five or thirty shots. I think this would have been unlikely during the time when muzzleloaders were the standard.

  Hungry Horse

ddoyle

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 10:55:22 PM »
Quote
I currently use Sucrets tins along with the trackofthewolf fire-starter hinged boxes, their glasses boxes or the their (about 2 5/8"" dia.) snuff (or whatever they are) containers also make good patch containers for wet patches, especially for large patches.

Copenhagen/Skoal snuff tins are custom made for wet patches and balls.

Don't know what the pros/cons are versus other lube but it is nice to have those wet patches on hand to wipe down pan and frizzen.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 11:02:26 PM by ddoyle »

Offline Black Jaque Janaviac

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2016, 11:59:09 PM »
Quote
Many of us think nothing of going to the range and shooting twenty-five or thirty shots. I think this would have been unlikely during the time when muzzleloaders were the standard.

We often speak about how conservative the old timers were with powder and lead.  I've always wondered how they got good at shooting then.  Practice makes perfect.  That rule applied then as it does today.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2016, 08:52:39 PM »
 i don't think they really were conservative with powder, and lead. They just didn't shoot a lot of it at one time. They used their rifles for sport, and hunting, and as a social activity. In my own lifetime I remember my parents, and grandparents, taking a gun along when visiting friend, or family. A little shooting match was just part of a Sunday afternoon, like pitching horseshoes.

    Hungry Horse

Offline redheart

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2016, 04:11:23 AM »

What is wwfluid?Isopropyl and food coloring with water? Doesn't sound like any lube to me.

Bob Roller
[/quote]

 ??? I'm with Bob on this one. Isopropyl and methanol are far more toxic than most people think.
You can use high proof Vodka in it's place and if you got bored with nothing to shoot at least you could drink it.
I know it's not cheap but what's your health worth?

Offline OldMtnMan

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2016, 05:28:43 PM »
Windex was mentioned as not freezing. I can say that isn't true. I leave a bottle in my Jeep and it always freezes up in winter.

I use bear tallow and beeswax for lube. It stays soft in cold weather. 90% tallow and 10% beeswax.

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2016, 05:44:52 PM »
WW solvent is methanol and water with a dye added.  The dye is added because in the auto industry, fluids are dyed a distinctive color so the whiz-bangs at Jiffy Lube can tell them apart.  The freezing temperature is controlled by adding more or less alcohol and it can be checked with a cheap antifreeze hydrometer.

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2016, 11:05:25 PM »

What is wwfluid?Isopropyl and food coloring with water? Doesn't sound like any lube to me.

Bob Roller

 ??? I'm with Bob on this one. Isopropyl and methanol are far more toxic than most people think.
You can use high proof Vodka in it's place and if you got bored with nothing to shoot at least you could drink it.
I know it's not cheap but what's your health worth?
[/quote]

One of our long times shooters, now past shooting age, used to keep his pre-cut patches in a waterproof container and soak them in brandy. He's take one out and put it in his mouth until ready to load.  This isn't work in the winter time as the brandy was always replaced with spit. LOL

WWWF is cheaper here than buying a quart of alcohol & then paying the dangerous good tax on the alcohol.  As noted, the WWWF is $4.00 per 4 liter jug- that is 4x 33.8ounces = 135.2 ounces - a bit more than a US gallon. I use the Blue Thunder brand - usually -35C.
Daryl

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Offline redheart

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2016, 05:27:55 AM »
Thanks Daryl, ;D

The brandy sounds like a tasty solution to the problem.

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 01:47:32 AM »
   No problem when you add a bit of Neetsfoot oil to the mix. Others try dish soap and others even try furniture oilsoap. NFO adds a little slipperiness to the slurry. I use it and like it.

Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2016, 02:31:11 PM »
It's very easy to use too much grease on a patch, be it natural, or otherwise. I like to treat my patches with melted tallow, or bore butter, and shake off any excess. I have never had any kind of build up in the riflings using this method.
 I think a lot of the problem is we just shoot more rounds at a time, compared to the old timers. Many of us think nothing of going to the range and shooting twenty-five or thirty shots. I think this would have been unlikely during the time when muzzleloaders were the standard.

  Hungry Horse

Too add to this I don't believe they cleaned their guns like we do after shooting. Especially with hostiles around.  If a person shoots one shot every few days I don't think cleaning like we do is necessary especially with using a grease lube. Up until a point anyway
Bob

MikeC

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2016, 03:57:59 PM »
I live in the northeast, if shooting at the range, basically load and shoot and it's sub freezing I spit patch.  For hunting where I load and don't pull the load until I get a shot or the season ends I use Ballistol and water 1-6 ratio.  Saturate patch, let dry on a non-porous surface, the patch will feel dry but the Ballistol is there.  Works for me and I have no worries about leaving the load in the barrel for extended periods of time.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Winter windshield washer fluid based lubes
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2016, 10:36:59 PM »
I have left my .69 loaded for anywhere up to 4 months, patch lubed with Neetsfoot Oil OR Track's Mink Oil, then when finally getting around to firing the shot, always hits or cuts the mark on our 20 or 25 yard 'fouling board' at the club. - NP - it's trustworthy.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V