Christian Oerter Rifle KRA Bulletin

[Jim Kibler]

How about the old photos of another Christian Oerter Rifle.  Pretty awesome.  Any more information anyone?

Jim

[blienemann]

Jim and all,
 
If you are responding to the request for more info in the current KRA Bulletin, two different rifles or long guns are shown.
 
One is a signed C Oerter barrel, apparently restocked in something with a back action lock!  The barrel is right, and we're trying to locate it and whatever else is with it.

The two photos of carving are from an unknown long gun - have no idea who made this or if there is a name on barrel - only have these two old pics, and the carving certainly seems related.

Any information is welcome.  Bob

[Eric Kettenburg]

Oh now come on.  I don't have mine yet, darn it!  What old pics?  Can I guess? 

Since you're looking into *potentially* Moravian stuff, have you looked into the rifle that was stolen out of Wes White's car in the 60s and turned up a few years back at auction?  That's an interesting piece.  I think it originally had a wood box.  Was pictured in the little b/w paperback from the bicentennial.  Looks an awful lot like a possible early Neihart… but maybe nearby?

[Tom Currie]

This is quite a teaser for us non KRA members.

Eric, Is the rifle you mentioned different from RCA 45 that was stolen from the Valley Forge Museum in the 1960s ? Wood box also. Apparently Wes White was involved in this one also per Joe Kindig.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Well now I've got my bulletin, and I see the piece Bob is talking about.  I remember seeing these pics but I don't think the rifle itself has been seen in quite a number of years.  I'm sure someone, somewhere, knows where it is - would be a good piece to examine as I already have a number of questions.

Bob maybe you can post it here?  Don't know about copyright issues.

(The piece I mentioned above is a different gun, probably one of the earliest Neihart pieces but not signed.  It's a long smooth rifle with all the typical carving you'd want to see, very nice piece.  I remember seeing it turn up at auction a few years ago, it was purchased.  Then maybe last year give or take (maybe two?) Wes White's son posted an add in the bulletin looking for two rifles which were stolen out of his dad's car in the 60s.  This was one of them.  I suppose there are legal issues involved now but I know nothing about them nor do I want to!  There were two small b/w pictures of it pictured in a little booklet that was put out for the bicentennial along with the Liberty or Deth gun.  They were Wes's pictures, I'll have to go dig around upstairs and find the book title now.  I just remember it was a bicentennial booklet put out by one of the southern PA historical societies.)

[Eric Kettenburg]

I can't find the book, I think I gave it to someone.  Honestly the only thing of value in it (to me) were the two little grainy pics of that rifle!

I think it was Lancaster Hist Soc, and I think it was a Sam Dyke booklet, 1975 or 6.  Can not for the life of me remember the title.

[blienemann]

Hi all,

We are looking for information on additional "Moravian" arms, including these two.

First is a signed Oerter barrel, but apparently restocked, percussioned, and maybe with a back action lock, as there is no wood for lock panels in the photo.  We would like to find this barrel and whatever might be with it.


I was also given these old photos with a reference to "Rochester".  I have talked to the museum and historical society there, but with no luck so far.  No idea if this barrel is signed, but the carving design sure seems related to others in this "school".



Any help is welcome.  If you are aware of other "Moravian made guns" that are not generally known, that info is also welcome.

Bob at bobl@centurylink.net or 303 932 1357

[Tom Currie]

Bob, Thanks for posting these pictures. Very interesting to a early LR junkie like myself.

Anyone hazard a guess as to the maker ? Although the carving design is unique my 2 bits are that the level of professionalism in the carving looks an awful lot like the level of carving on the Edward Marshall rifle, including near perfect volutes. Volute in front of the box lid shares a design and detail with Marshall rifle

EK Is this a different rifle than you remembered as an early Neihardt ?.

[Eric Kettenburg]

Yep, I hope I was able to make that clear - this is a different rifle.

Bob do you know who took these photos?  They look like old photos from Wes White.

[spgordon]

I can't find the book, I think I gave it to someone.  Honestly the only thing of value in it (to me) were the two little grainy pics of that rifle!

I think it was Lancaster Hist Soc, and I think it was a Sam Dyke booklet, 1975 or 6.  Can not for the life of me remember the title.

Eric, I've got the book (Dyke's Pennsylvania Rifle), which pictures lots of rifles. I'm not sure the one you mean, but if you can describe it I can scan & post the pictures ... Is it this one?



This is the page facing the photos of the Wes White "Liberty and Death" rifle. Most of the other rifles in the book are assigned to makers.

[rich pierce]

Photos of that early buttstock evocative of the Marshall rifle are super exciting. Masterful carving. Early furniture. Open guard. Architecture looks more Oerter-ish including the cheek piece. But seems earlier. Fantastic rifle or smooth rifle.

[Jim Kibler]

I agree.  The architecture is nice.  Doesn't have as much of the melted Popsicle look...

[blienemann]

We are hoping that someone will come forward with this signed Oerter barrel and the carved rifle, so that we can photograph and learn more.  These old pics are our only leads so far.

Re the "early Niehardt" rifle Eric mentioned, I believe these small snapshots are of that rifle.  Scott provided the title - and as often happens, photos of several long guns were mixed together - one of the rifle and two of a smooth gun.  Here's the other side, with carving very similar to some we know.  I think Brad Emig has stocked a version of this rifle.





If you have more info, please get in touch.

On a related note, Scott Gordon and I have just published an article in the Journal of Moravian History which describes the gunmaking trade at Bethlehem, Christian’s Spring and Nazareth from 1750 to 1800.  I think Dennis will be adding that info under the Classified and Media headings.  Bob