.40 .45 or .50 Cal For Southern Mountain Rifle

[DuncanvonYeast]

Hey guys,

I was wondering for a southern mountain rifle barrel which caliber would be best .40 .45 or .50?What type of rifling square or round bottom?I want this gun to be historically accurate for the period of flintlock southern mountain rifles. I'm 14 and some what new to gun building, all comments are appreciated

Thank you for your time,

     Duncan von Yeast

[David R. Pennington]

The answer is yes. Any of the above would in my opinion be OK. Welcome to the forum. A very good place to learn. I am a good bit older than you and learn something here just about every time I look. I would first think about what you intend to use the rifle for most often. A .40 is a good caliber that can take any thing from squirrels to deer, (if it meets minimum requirements in your state) and a lot of fun to shoot at the range too.. .45 and .50 are probably better choices for hunting bigger game or target as well. I personally like square bottom rifling. I am not any great shot, but seems my square bottom rifled guns work better for me. If economy is important the .40 requires less feeding.

[bama]

Duncan i am glad you are interested in building a rifle. What is called a Southern Mountain Rifle is a pretty broad spectrum. The early Iron mounted guns were of larger calibers but they were also not the very slim rifles that they turned into in the late flint period. So if you want to build a large caliber pick an early iron rifle, Bogle, Bull's are a few early builders. Later the calibers went down in size so the rifles slimmed up because the barrel size went down.

I built a long barreled slim 50 cal rifle in a late period style and the recoil was quite noticeable with a fairly heavy 100 yard load. I also built a 54 cal in an early style that you could shoot all day with a 100 yard load without much felt recoil. The early rifle had a heavier barrel and a 2" wide butt, the late had a nice slim long 46" barrel with a 1 1/2" butt.

I hope this helps you.

[WadePatton]

I'd learn more about the guns themselves first and also what my plans for the gun are.  If you're going to hunt big game you'll want the larger calibers.  If you're going to shoot targets mostly, then a smaller caliber will save lead and powder.  Hunting regulations may play into that decision as well.  40 is often not permitted for large game.  That's not the case in my state, but your state is what you need to know.

We just had a thread here on groove shapes.  You should find that and read it.  What I've learned from reading is that either groove shape wins matches.  If there were a different _on targets_ groove shape would matter to me.  I don't think there is.  BUT folks have their preferences and no one can tell you what yours will be. 

Welcome to the ALR, read and research and then do some practice work on hardwood with gun making tools.  Then read some more.  Some things you have to feel/see with your own hands to truly understand, so I always suggest mixing it up.  best of luck and be safe.

[Hungry Horse]

 I think quite often all Southern guns get lumped into the classification of Southern mountain rifles. There are sub- catagories how ever. Early Southern guns tended to be heavier caliber, with more robust stocks, do to their use as milita weapons, and the fact that big game was still quite plentiful in the Southern states at that time. These guns often are referred to as hog rifles. As big game deminished, more small game became regular table fair, and the caliber of the guns diminished as well. These guns are the classic squirrel rifle, with the small caliber long barrels, and ultra slim stocks. Match rifles often are a mixture of the two previously mentioned guns. Being of smallish caliber, and long but quite heavy barrels, usually having robust stock as well. Many guns collected in the South have been altered over time to fit the owners needs, and may demonstrate features from all these catagories, making them quite hard to classify.

   Hungry Horse

[Dale Campbell]

Hi Duncan, I built my first muzzle-loader when I was 14. There was nothing like this forum then, and only a couple people I could ask questions of, and they didn't know too much more than I did. So, it looks like a piece of $#@*(1). And I still have it some 40 years later.

So, there are a lot of people here who are incredibly talented, who have very high expectations of themselves, and really want to bring everyone up to their level. Don't feel that if you can't make that level right out of the gate, that you shouldn't try. Build what you want, ask questions here and go for it. If it shoots where you point it, and looks great in your eyes, that's what matters. There is nothing like doing something to learn about it. Dollars to donuts you'll want to make another anyway. The thing is, I did it at your age, and if I had the kind of information you have access to (more books, internet pictures like the virtual library here, and this forum), you'll do tons better than I. Taylor S. here I thing built his first at your age as well, and did an outstanding job. So can you.

As far as caliber, it depends on what you want to do with the gun. And if you go with a smaller caliber now, you can make a bigger caliber later. Or the other way around. Keep us posted.

(1) that was a four letter word that started with a c, had an r, an a, and a p. Not some other. Pretty serious "spell checking" here. I don't have a problem with that.

[Pete G.]

As a general rule they tended to be smaller calibers. I remember hearing my grandmother refer to a "pea rifle", so called because it shot a ball the size of a pea.

[JCKelly]

This rifle is attributed to Virginia



Southern rifle, probably Virginia, circa 1790, percussion converted from flint.  Virginia style trigger guard and both thimbles are iron. The double set triggers are offset to the right, as in some Tennessee rifles. Styling suggests it may be from the upper James area, from either Botetourt or Rockbridge County (Gusler articles in Muzzle Blasts, April/May 2000, vol 5, No. 2; July '04, March '06, April '07).     A relatively shallow trigger guard and stock with little drop are characteristic of Virginia rifles. This rifle is entirely iron mounted, and made without either a buttplate or forend cap. Originally made as flintlock, sometime after about 1825 the rifle  was converted to  percussion ignition.  The octagonal barrel is heavily swamped, indeed the muzzle is slightly wider across the flats than is the breech. At the muzzle this barrel measures 0.938 inches, then narrows to 0.832” about 8” back, then widens at the breech, but only to 0.862”. This is not atypical of Southern rifles. Rifled with the traditional 7 grooves,    the .42 caliber barrel  is 43-3/8” long. Rifle weights 8 lb, has 13-1/8" length of pull.
I bought this rifle in '03 because I liked the architecture, not because I necessarily collect Southern arms. Well, I do have a Kentucky Kentucky by Poole, which is in Shelby Galleian's book, and a maybe Tennessee chunk gun.

I have found that auction sites are a wonderful source of information. Generally they have more & better photos than do books on the subject, though less written information. A fine source of Southern rifle photos is in Cowan's auctions. Take a look at:
http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/catalog.aspx?id=197
This should illustrate a variety of Southern styles for you from their April 27, 2011 catalog.
Some of these rifles are in Jerry Noble's books
 
Just how to turn a plank into a rifle is covered well in this forum.

[PPatch]

Welcome to ALR Duncan.

I recently finished my third SMR in .36 caliber and have plans for eventually making two others in .45. As several have mentioned caliber is both a personal choice and also regulated by the individual states for hunting purposes. For deer hunting a .45 caliber generally seems to be the lowest allowed in most states, and is also a good target shooting caliber. With a .50 you can shoot either FFg or FFFg powder, below that FFFg is recommended. I shoot FFFg in my .50. All of my rifles have round bottomed rifling, I have no experience with square bottomed so can't remark on that.

Plan your rifle, do your research just as you're doing here, go slow but sure with your build. If you have questions just ask, someone here will be able to assist you.  Be safe, have fun.

dave

[sqrldog]

JC
That rifle built with a Bwt .50  44" barrel would be one fine hunting rifle for hogs and deer. I know the original is .42 but we can imagine it was freshened a time or two. For those wanting a southern big bore, Michael Briggs has pictures of an early Mecklenburg School rifle referred to as the "Hornets nest rifle" in his book "The Longrifle Makers of the Mecklenburg School". But alas the rifle is brass mounted with a wood patchbox. The caliber is listed as .60 one of my favorites. Tim

[Mark Elliott]

Duncan,

About where do you live?   There may be someone on this board who could provide you some in person assistance.   I live in the Richmond, VA area and have an apprentice that I am helping to build an iron mounted  pistol right now.    There are a few of us who specialize in iron mounted southern guns.   I think there are very few of us who wouldn't be thrilled to share what we have learned.

Mark