Author Topic: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel  (Read 11250 times)

edwardc

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i have an old barrel  that has some nice deep engraving ( or stamping ?)
and  i was wondering  if  its  possible  to use gold foil  to highlight these  lines

or do i need  to break the bank and buy real gold  and melt  it down  etc 

thanks 
ed  c

Offline Daryl

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2016, 12:14:09 AM »
Some time ago, there was a gold filling kit - powder plus an adhesive that soaked the poured in powder and hardened, gluing the gold dust to the metal as a solid metal.  I have seen these "kits" used to "embellish" otherwise plainly engraved guns- notably modern O/U shotguns.   The effect was rather striking.
Daryl

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Online smart dog

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2016, 12:34:38 AM »
Hi Edward,
There used to be a paint sold by Brownell's that was gold suspended in a liquid binder material. You could paint it on engraved lettering and borders and it produced gold highlights but quite dim.  Gold leaf can also be used but it likely is not very good for lines and lettering.  It has to have some surface area upon which to adhere. Both the paint and leaf are not very durable and they don't fill the letters, just coat the surface. Consequently, the gold is not flush with the metal surface and is not very bright. The best solution for lettering and lines  is to inlet gold wire, which requires slightly undercutting the letters and tapping in gold to fill the space.  Unlike the paint and leaf, the gold is flush with the metal surface and really shows up.

dave  
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 12:36:38 AM by smart dog »
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Offline JTR

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2016, 03:25:21 AM »
Check it out!
I used something like this on a shotgun engraving about 35 years ago, and most (95%) of it is still there.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/product/gold-inlay-filling-kit-single-pack/

John
John Robbins

Offline Captchee

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2016, 02:59:58 PM »
Forsters is a bronze powder that’s mixed with basically a lacquer. Its then rubbed into the engraving . It was all the rage for a while back in the 80's 
 . don’t really see it much anymore  since folks have began rubbing colored wax into their stamped engraving .
.
 Some nice work  can be done with gold leaf . However its best to  use it in the recessed areas if your going to use it . then use a sealer . If not it will peal and wear rather easily.

The you have the choice of doing gilding  which holds up better and is actual gold , silver or what have you . Today gilding is   going to be  most commonly done more along the lines of electroplating vs.  using mercury .
 The best option IMO .
set real gold to the engraving . It doesn’t take as much as you think when its done right. 
 it can be rolled out and set to low areas or lines . it can be set in to areas strips or as a plate .........
 the real cost is in having the work done . not really in the gold

Offline Daryl

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2016, 06:30:30 PM »
Check it out!
I used something like this on a shotgun engraving about 35 years ago, and most (95%) of it is still there.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/product/gold-inlay-filling-kit-single-pack/

John

Yeah - that appears to be the "stuff". This all happened about 1976.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2016, 08:08:15 PM »
Some time ago, there was a gold filling kit - powder plus an adhesive that soaked the poured in powder and hardened, gluing the gold dust to the metal as a solid metal.  I have seen these "kits" used to "embellish" otherwise plainly engraved guns- notably modern O/U shotguns.   The effect was rather striking.

I did this to my new Winchester 101 trap gun in 1970 and it looked good - for a short while - the constant handling of the receiver finally wore away much of the gold then it did not look so good. 
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2016, 07:14:10 AM »
I know it's not the same but I have filled in freshly cut engraving and stamping with silver solder- tinned over the subject surface with silver solder, used a good flux, and then dressed the whole works down so only the silver solder in the stamping or engraving was left. It stood out quite well after the thing was browned . One of my rifles is over 20 years old and seen hard use with no ill effects. I don't think it's a traditional or old world process but it works.

Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2016, 09:03:45 PM »
What nobody using mercury amalgam anymore?  :P
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Online smart dog

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2016, 10:37:53 PM »
What nobody using mercury amalgam anymore?  :P
That and lead is what special education is for.

dave
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Offline kutter

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2016, 06:26:48 AM »
You can use  gold foil and/or extremely thin gold wire and do 'Damascening' work on new or old engraving work to accent the background,lettering or make figures and patterns.

The foil sheet gold used is only a few .000 thick and is usually made by the artist by simply hammering thicker sheet gold out to the desired thickness. 24k and even 22k are very ductile and can be hammered down to a couple .000 thickness quite easily.
Silver is also used in some work along with other semi precious metals.

The base metal is prepared by making criss-cross cuts in 3 directions with a tiny chisel to throw burrs upwards. Those burrs are what the soft gold impales itself on when lightly hammered or burnished onto the surface.
Large areas can be covered with the foil,, like background. Lines and borders can be laid down with the very thin wire . It takes skill to keep lines and curves correct.
The Spanish were and are famous for this style of embellishment of steel but it is used by many.
The simple technique of the criss-cross burr structure to snag the gold is used by many engravers to inlay gold figures.
I've used it for many years in gold and silver inlays within the figures outline adding a shallow dovetail at the border. Then using nothing more than annealed gold wire of different diameters, they are set into the surface w/a punch. They stay put if done right  and can be either flush or raised inlays depending on your preference.

No, it's not as simple as wiping gold paint into the engraving or lettering, but it's a true art form of metal embellishment that  goes back centuries in it's practice around the world.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 06:28:06 AM by kutter »

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2016, 05:00:14 PM »
This link takes you to some gold inlay: https://thoscurran.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/blue-and-gold/

The process is described by Smart Dog above, which requires the design be engraved, then undercut to hold the gold, then 24K gold wire is tapped into the recesses. The soft gold flows into the undercuts, much like putty. It's a lot of work, but the results are stunning.
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Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2016, 05:27:06 PM »
I have not yet been successful at Damascening, which is described by Kutter. It seems so fluently done by the Spanish, that I know "it will be easy, once I know how."  ;D
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2016, 06:35:20 PM »
I do a lot of Damascene work in different colors of gold and silver and sometimes copper. The cross hatch method referred to by Kutter works fairly well in open areas but not as well as what is called the single tooth method. The single tooth method holds tighter and is superior when doing overlay in a cavity or the backgroung in relief engraving. When working down in the background of relief engraving there are many places where it is impossible to do crosshatch type teeth. Single teeth can be done almost anyplace and when a person learns hoy it can be done as fast as cross hatch. All the Spanish artists I have observed doing it appear to be using the single tooth method also.  The gold must be 24K and is rolled out to a thickness of .002" to .003" and then annealed. There are some tricks to the application that should be learned. click on the link below to see an example
http://jwh-flintlocks.net/j-jaeger-pg3.html
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 06:36:50 PM by jerrywh »
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Offline frogwalking

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2016, 03:01:29 AM »
Don't try to solder high carat gold, even with a soldering iron.  It melt real easy.  :(
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2016, 07:12:42 PM »
Gold melts at 1880° F however gold is a strange metal and will alloy with lead at 650°. 24K gold soldered with any low temp solder can no longer be called 24K legally.  A piece of 24K gold will disolve in lead at 650°.
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Offline frogwalking

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Re: gold leaf ?? or gold foil? for engraving idea on barrel
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 05:13:50 AM »
Thanks.  I was very surprised that the piece of 22 carat gold I was trying to solder on the back of a front sight just melted.  I had tinned the sight, fluxed the gold and was using a soldering iron when it just went away.
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