Seeking best way to drill frizzen axel hole

[haddockkl]

Hello all,
What is the best way you more experienced builders have found to install a new frizzen and drill the axel hole in the proper location?  I have a handfull of kits, and this aspect in particular is daunting me.

Thanks in advance

[Hungry Horse]

 A builder I know always has the best frizzen to pan contact I 've ever seen, so I asked him how he accomplished it. He took me into his shop and showed me a Siler lock kit, with the frizzen soldered to the pan, ready to be drilled.

  Hungry Horse

[davec2]

I have also used super glue to mount the frizzen to the pan before drilling.  Just drill in short bursts so the parts don't heat up enough to break the glue bond.  Then some gentle warming with any heat source and the bond will break.  The glue remnants are asier to clean off the pan and frizzen than solder.  

[bob in the woods]

Make sure you file and stone the parts first so that the fit passes the "light test "

[Eric Kettenburg]

Absolutely glue it and clamp it w/ some little filed or shaped wooden blocks to ensure a good clamp, and definitely as noted above make sure to get at least a rough file fit first to ensure it good tight mating surface.  Then just drill slowly, I do it with multiple bits preferably the hard carbide bits so there is no need for pressure.  Leave it fully clamped, carefully drill out the clearance size through the foot just about to the plate and tap the plate through the foot all while it's still glued/clamped.  You can finish ream or drill out the last bit of the foot afterwards.

[gumboman]

I have just completed a fowler and used a Davis Manton lock. The lock pan and frizzen contact surface does not pass the light test as there is a gap between the two when the frizzen is closed. The gap does not appear big enough to pass priming powder but it is a concern for me. How can one eliminate this gap since the axle hole is already drilled? Is there a procedure that any of you experienced builders have used to fix this?

[Bob Roller]

I have just completed a fowler and used a Davis Manton lock. The lock pan and frizzen contact surface does not pass the light test as there is a gap between the two when the frizzen is closed. The gap does not appear big enough to pass priming powder but it is a concern for me. How can one eliminate this gap since the axle hole is already drilled? Is there a procedure that any of you experienced builders have used to fix this?

Make a larger diameter screw.

Bob Roller

[KC]

I read a tutorial a guy did when he built a V-pan Manton lock from Rifle Shoppe castings. He used dop wax that jewelers use. You could probably google the tutorial. It seemed to work well for him.

[jerrywh]

 Just solder the pan to the frizzen. That works the best. Use paste solder. No matter how you drill the hole it will not fit correctly if the screw doesn't fit the hole precisely. A simple clearance hole size is not sufficient to produce a precision fit. The screw must be made to fit the hole with no more than a  .001" to .003" fit. All needs to be complete before the frizzen is unsoldered. Chambers has this down to a fine art.  I don't know his exact procedure. But I'm pretty sure he uses a reamer.   

[Bob Roller]

Just solder the pan to the frizzen. That works the best. Use paste solder. No matter how you drill the hole it will not fit correctly if the screw doesn't fit the hole precisely. A simple clearance hole size is not sufficient to produce a precision fit. The screw must be made to fit the hole with no more than a  .001" to .003" fit. All needs to be complete before the frizzen is unsoldered. Chambers has this down to a fine art.  I don't know his exact procedure. But I'm pretty sure he uses a reamer.   

I made flintlocks for years and used a 4/0 taper pin or sometimes a 3/0.
Clamped the frizzen and plate together and drilled and reamed.
Just this morning a cleaned a lock I made in 1981 that was never on a
gun and it had the 4/0 pin. It was a Ketland with double throated cock
and a big pan.This is a rare lock because most of them are in Europe.

Bob Roller

[gumboman]

On the lock I refer to on my fowler, the gap between the pan and frizzen is not related to the screw. It is due to imprecise machining. The mating surfaces are not machined flat and square which leaves a space between the two when the frizzen is closed. To eliminate the gap, some metal will have to be removed so the pan and pan cover can mate up precisely. If not done in the right way, I fear I would make the gap bigger. I am thinking that experienced gunsmiths have had to deal with this problem in the past and someone has figured out an easy way to fix it without having to make a new screw in the process.

[bob in the woods]

If the screw is fixed, and you don't wish to alter that engagement, then you are back to using transfer colour [ smoke/soot etc] to indicate the spots on the pan cover that need to be filed. It's a try as you go process.

[jerrywh]

 There is no easy way.

[P.W.Berkuta]

On the lock I refer to on my fowler, the gap between the pan and frizzen is not related to the screw. It is due to imprecise machining. The mating surfaces are not machined flat and square which leaves a space between the two when the frizzen is closed. To eliminate the gap, some metal will have to be removed so the pan and pan cover can mate up precisely. If not done in the right way, I fear I would make the gap bigger. I am thinking that experienced gunsmiths have had to deal with this problem in the past and someone has figured out an easy way to fix it without having to make a new screw in the process.

When you file/fit the pan / frizzen interface to fit together flush you need to plug and re-drill the pivot screw to compensate for the pan to frizzen's new fit -- can't get around that. The pivot point need to be moved or the two surfaces still will not fit together.

[gumboman]

Thanks for the feedback. It appears my best option is to live with the gap and remember to buy a lock from a different maker on my next project.