Load recommendations

[newknapper]

i would like some input on powder recommendations for a .62 rifled Rice barrel. Do I need FFg, or can I use FFFg for both priming and charge? Also I was looking at at .610 ball with a .018 patch combo.

[L. Akers]

I use 3F in all my MLs from my .31 to my 12 ga shotgun.  I gave up 2F several years ago and my reason was that after researching contemporary accounts, I found that Curtis and Harvey #6 was a very popular powder with shooters in the 1800s.  C&H #6 is in between our modern 2F and 3F in grain size and was a much more powerful powder than our modern black powder.  Shooter's charge amounts were comparable to what we use now.  Pressures of modern 3F are well below those produced by C&H #6 so I decided to go exclusively with 3F.  A plus--in my guns 3F shoots cleaner.

Yes you can use your main charge powder to prime.

[Squirrel pizza]

Everyone has an opinion and a recipe. IMHO, with rifles .58 or larger, ff BP is recommended. I do like using (as a main charge), 20-25grs. of FFF first followed by60+ grains of FF on top of that. A lot depends on if your hunting moose or shooting paper, and the range your shooting. Because BP burns and not "explodes" like a modern smokeless powder, you reach a point of diminishing return. Meaning you can only expect so much powder to actually burn and produce pressure, the rest is wasted after the ball or bullet leaves the barrel. Using the finer powder burns quicker, helping ignite the heavier powder. I don't know if with your rifle or conditions this will help much. A basic starting point is 1 gr of powder charge per caliber. Depending on your barrel(old antique, new, how heavy), counts a lot as to the pressures you want it to go through. Remember, with a RB, the patch takes the rifling. I use the thickest patch possible that I don't have to hammer down the barrel. I'm sure lubes are just as important, especially to the AR target shooters. But I've used everything from spit to mink oil. When rampaging squirrels threaten the homestead a man has to do what's nessisary, but I prefer bore butter, again, a personal preference.

[Squirrel pizza]

1 gr. of powder per caliber for a target load. .62cal (depending on age of rifle) can deliver a whole lot of woop a--. And will eat a lot of powder. But it's a good starting point.

[Mike Brooks]

i would like some input on powder recommendations for a .62 rifled Rice barrel. Do I need FFg, or can I use FFFg for both priming and charge? Also I was looking at at .610 ball with a .018 patch combo.

You should try both granulations, won't know what works best till you try. In the past I have found the .610 to be a little to tight for a rifled .62 with a .018-.020 patch. I would probably go with a .600 , but that's just me.

[newknapper]

i would like some input on powder recommendations for a .62 rifled Rice barrel. Do I need FFg, or can I use FFFg for both priming and charge? Also I was looking at at .610 ball with a .018 patch combo.

You should try both granulations, won't know what works best till you try. In the past I have found the .610 to be a little to tight for a rifled .62 with a .018-.020 patch. I would probably go with a .600 , but that's just me.

Thanks, that's why I ask because I am new to flintlocks and really have a good bit to learn.

[WadePatton]

So far my 54 prefers FF. and I prime with FF.  I do that because it's simpler and works fine in the woods and stays in the pan better than FFFF. 

I have tried FFF in it, but yet to work up a good load.  When I shoot FFF, I prime with it too. 

Your gun, when loaded consistently with a proper patch (thick wet) that when recovered could be loaded again without issue, will show you which load is prefers as you move up the charge window.  Your gun won't shoot best with exactly the same thing as anyone else's gun. They're all slightly different, just as all our components tend to be.

Enjoy and be safe and POWDER FIrST!

[bob in the woods]

My Chambers Edward Marshall rifle has a .62 Rice barrel. I use a .600 ball
and FFg

[newknapper]

My Chambers Edward Marshall rifle has a .62 Rice barrel. I use a .600 ball
and FFg

What is a good source for ammunition? I have looked at October country and all they have ar .610 balls.  Know TOW has some, are there anymore suppliers out there I've made missed?

[bob in the woods]

I cast my own.  I have 2 different moulds, one a .610 from Lyman which I sometimes use for my smoothbore, and the .600 which is a custom made mould. There are a few sources for these, one being Larry Callahan.

[Daryl]

Rifle moulds on the other hand, for me need to be .005" smaller than the bore - thus in a .62 rifle, I'd use a .615" ball.  Here, Lyman moulds, my normal choice are well over $100.00- so the Tanner mould at about $30.00 Us is the best, price wise.

I use 3F or 2F in .40 through .69 in rifles. I use 3f in my .36, but will probably find a 2F load it likes, just in case I run out of 3F.  The larger bores, .50 on up, seem to shoot best with 2F - for me - that is, they shoot more accurately than with 3F.

There are no hard and fast rules for powder charges.  You should experiment with different loads, perhaps ball sizes and patch thicknesses to find the combination YOUR rifle likes best - IF your rifle's BEST accuracy is important to you.

Note, in the bore sizes such as .50 and above, 3f will generate MUCH higher pressures than will 2F - at the same velocities. 

That is for example, at a velocity of 1,600fps, the 3f load producing this speed will generate more pressure inside the barrel, than will a charge of 2F that produces 1,600fps in the same rifle. Also note - it takes MORE grains weight of 2F to generate the same speeds as generated by any load of 3F.

For guys loading 'slightly' weak/thin patch combinations, 2f will most likely shoot more accurately due to the lower pressures generated for any given load.  The higher the pressures, the more likely the chance of gas blow-by burning past the patch and ruining accuracy.

For those who think a patched ball does not SEAL the bore, one need only to be standing beside me if I load my .69 without lifting the hammer to 1/2 bent position.

If the hammer is down on a spent cap, I cannot seat the next ball all the way- about 5" short of the powder - the air pressure inside the bore will push the rod and ball back up the bore- almost out, if I let go of the rod.

When I pull the hammer to 1/2 bent, the pssewwwwwwwwwww out the nipple shows there was a LOT of air compressed between the patched ball and bottom of the grooves.

Some math-oriented lad could compute the compressed air volume - Pi x R squared x length?  .702 (1/2 .690 bore and .714 groove) divided by 2 = radius x radius x Pi x 30" = 11.6cu. in?  Compressed into about 4" length - is that right? I don't know - maybe - enough to say, the patch makes a pretty good seal.

After releasing the pressure, I can push the patched ball down onto the powder.

[mparker762]

Some math-oriented lad could compute the compressed air volume - Pi x R squared x length?  .702 (1/2 .690 bore and .714 groove) divided by 2 = radius x radius x Pi x 30" = 11.6cu. in?  Compressed into about 4" length - is that right? I don't know - maybe - enough to say, the patch makes a pretty good seal.

After releasing the pressure, I can push the patched ball down onto the powder.

All that radius and pi stuff falls out in the wash since the bore diameter is the same at both the muzzle and chamber, unless you've got progressive-depth rifling like the Enfield rifle musket.  So to compute the pressure at the bottom, assuming perfect seals - 30"/4" = 7.5:1 compression, so 7.5 x 14.696 psi (aka "standard" atmospheric pressure) = 110.22 psi at the bottom of your ramming stroke.  There is non-adiabatic heating so the pressure will actually be somewhat higher than this (I don't have the necessary constants at hand or it would be easy to calculate the correct pressure from Boyle's Ideal Gas Law).