Neutralizing Keibler Aqufortis

[Eric Krewson]

I bought a bottle of Jim's aquafortis, I plan on using it for the first time today. When I did my last stock with Track aquafortis I coated the stock with dilute ammonia to neutralise the stuff after I blushed it, the stuff was still pretty acid.

Do  you think I need to use the same procedure on Keibler aquafortis.

[wattlebuster]

Ammonia is what I have always used on any aquafortis I have used an I dont see how Jims would be any different. Just give him a cal an ask or shoot him a email. Im sure he will be more than happy to tell you

[Eric Krewson]

The stuff sure makes a nice color on my wood, a piece of scrap from the first test.

[wattlebuster]

Im agreeable with that. Looks good. What project you got going Eric

[Eric Krewson]

.40 squirrel rifle.

Before blushing, the curl diminishes and gets spotty past the lock panels.

[Mauser06]

Right or wrong?  I used his tannic acid and iron nitrate on my stock....blushed it and started working it with oiled scotchbrite....




After both were applied




After blushing






Finished stock. 



Not what can or will happen without neutralizing?    Hopefully nothing lol....i made sure I heated it well....

[heinz]

Jim is not selling Aqua Fortis. He is selling ferric nitrate, what you get when the acid and iron filings completely react. It ain't acid anymore. You do not have to nuetralize it. It will not hurt anything if you do, but there is no leftover acid to worry about.

[Jim Kibler]

Some like to neutralize some don't.  I don't feel the need.  If you do, a mixture of baking soda and water will work fine.  Some use ammonia as well.
Glad you are getting good results with the stain.

Thanks,
Jim

[Mad Monk]

With the real ferric nitrate it is not a question of neutralizing as you would think of.  Ferric nitrate is itself unstable.   Simply exposure to air over a period of time will cause it to break down and convert to iron oxide.  You can get different colors with it depending on the level of relative humidity in the air while it slowly breaks down.

When the temperature gets up around 150 F the ferric nitrate breaks down rapidly.  Giving off lower oxides of nitrogen as it converts to iron oxide.

If you use a mild caustic, such as baking soda or potassium carbonate the stain will tend to foam which lifts some of the iron oxide off the surface of the wood.   This may be used to get a greater contrast between the curl (end grain wood) and the wood where the grain is nearly parallel to the surface.

If you use ammonia it may darken the wood.  Ammonia reacts with the tannic acid in the wood giving a darker color to the wood.  The type of caustic used (strength) will alter the colors produced by the stain.

[SingleMalt]

Colonial smiths used lye solution to neutralize the acid.  I've tried it and it adds a redder tone to the wood to my eyes.  A table spoon to a bucket of water is enough.  Wear gloves!  It's not a strong enough solution to cause harm, but you won't be able to grasp anything!

[Mad Monk]

Colonial smiths used lye solution to neutralize the acid.  I've tried it and it adds a redder tone to the wood to my eyes.  A table spoon to a bucket of water is enough.  Wear gloves!  It's not a strong enough solution to cause harm, but you won't be able to grasp anything!

You are correct on the redder tone.  That is a function of the strength of the caustic being used.
I had done some work on that in the lab comparing the different caustics and the colors produced.

The color of iron oxide can vary over a wide range of the "earth colors".  Molecules of iron oxide will hold molecules of water.  The amount of water attached to each molecule of iron oxide will determine its color.  If very strong sodium, or potassium, hydroxide is used the red gets so intense that in the form of a wet paste it appears black.

If you swab the nitrate of iron stain on a stock and stand the stock in a damp coroner of the basement you get mainly yellow and some orange and brown.  Then heat it gently to drive off some of the water attached to the iron oxide and it will go into the brown colors.  But to use enough heat to drive off all of the water to get red colors you end up scorching the wood to a brown color.

[Mad Monk]

Forgot to mention.  You must watch the caustic application thing.  If the caustic remains in the wood it may come back and haunt you as the finished stock ages.  Moisture migration in the wood will carry the caustic to the interface between the wood and the finish.  If it is a boiled oil finish or a boiled oil based varnish it will slowly turn the linseed oil to a soap.  The finish gets soft and "oily". 

[SingleMalt]

Forgot to mention.  You must watch the caustic application thing.  If the caustic remains in the wood it may come back and haunt you as the finished stock ages.  Moisture migration in the wood will carry the caustic to the interface between the wood and the finish.  If it is a boiled oil finish or a boiled oil based varnish it will slowly turn the linseed oil to a soap.  The finish gets soft and "oily". 

You're exactly right.  And I forgot to mention that the stock should be rinsed with plain water after.

[mossyhorn]

Do you use a brush or swab to apply Kiblers stain? Do you rub the stock after applying heat and what do you rub with or very lightly sand if either?

[Mauser06]

I used a piece of clean cotton to put it on....


After its heated I used mostly scotchbrite and some light sand paper with my finishing oil (I used Chamber's oil) and worked it till I got the color I wanted...i accidently rubbed too hard on the right side of the grip and it lightened up a bit...so I rubbed out the forearm where my hand usually goes and the top of the cheekpiece....left the lock molding and cheekpiece edge darker..kinda gave it a worn look...as well as some of my scraping mishaps I didn't see until I started working it back...first time scraping instead of sanding..


After working it back to where I wanted it I wiped it down and oiled it pretty heavy and let it soak it up a bit and went over it lightly to clean it up and let that first coat dry...then burnished with antler..then finished with a few more coats of oil..