still looking for these parts from two old rifles

[blienemann]

Hi all,

I posted this a while back - we are looking for information on additional "Moravian" arms, including these two.  No responses to date from KRA or ALR members.  Any suggestions for getting the word out are welcome.  Thought I would try one more time - thank you for your patience.

First is a signed Oerter barrel, but apparently restocked, percussioned, and maybe with a back action lock, as there is no wood for lock panels in the photo.  We would like to find this barrel and whatever might be with it.



I was also given these old photos with a reference to "Rochester".  I have talked to the museum and historical society there, but with no luck so far.  No idea if this barrel is signed, but the stocking and carving design sure seem related to others we have seen.





Any help is welcome.  If you are aware of other "Moravian made guns" that are not generally known, that info is also welcome.  Happy to keep any information confidential, per owner's request.  Thank you.

Bob at bobl@centurylink.net or 303 932 1357

[Buck]

blienemann,

This is not my area of expertise, but the carving on the lower rifle is very similar to rifles attributed to Jacob Messersmith and signed rifles by Abraham Schweitzer. If you have a copy of "Masterpieces of the American Longrifle" (Hornberger / Kindig) pages 35 and 51. The Moravian book is another great study for that area.

Regards,

Buck

[smart dog]

Hi Buck,
Bob Lienemann is one of the authors of that fine book on Moravian gun making.

dave

[Eric Kettenburg]

I have to say, the carved rifle is extremely interesting.  Very hard not to immediately group it w/ #41 and #43 especially just viewing the shape of the cheek and the carving.  Would love to see that turn up.

[blienemann]

Buck, thanks for the referrals.  Shumway Vol 1 #52 always caught my eye as similar in shape to Oerter and related work, and the mostly incised carving on it seems close to this buttstock.  Eric or someone once mentioned similar carving pattern on a rifle by Gumpf ??  The influences or connections with Lancaster makers as you suggest is very interesting, thanks.  A. Schweitzer probably knew or worked with H. Albrecht / Albright, son of Andreas.  Maybe there are connections there?

Eric - yes, it's very close to #43 in many areas, carving, beavertails, etc.  Many of these rifles / smooth rifles have very short cheekpieces - unusual.  The bit of carving along buttplate - have we seen that elsewhere, and Oerter did something like that in wire on the Coykendall rifle.

We have another signed Oerter barrel out there somewhere - dated same year as two other signed rifles, both carried by members of the New Jersey militia.  Would sure like to find this, and see if there's a patchbox or other mounts that survived with the barrel.  Somehow quite a few of his rifles have survived.

thanks for the comments, please keep em coming.

[Buck]

Dave,

I did not know that. I've had it here and only perused it once, might be a good idea to look at it.

blienemann,

I wasn't being disrespectful. If you get a chance and have the book look at the 2 rifles I noted. Very similar style.

Buck

[Eric Kettenburg]

By the way Bob, it looks like there might be an engraved signature on the lock plate.  Possibly it's just rust or pock marks etc., and it's tough to tell from these little photos.  Can you blow up Wes's original enough to tell?  While on one hand it may be just a German signature, i.e. recycled or purchased lock (quite a possibility given the furnishings), on the other hand maybe it might be a big surprise.  Just thought I'd mention it.

[blienemann]

Yes, looks like remnants of a signature on lock plate, but the original image I have is no better than what we are looking at here, is overexposed.  Looks like a proper Germanic lock of the period with beveled edge, might be block letters - but all a guess.  Sure would like to locate these two and see what they reveal.  thanks. 

[RAT]

The buttplate, trigger guard, and wrist inlay don't seem typical of other signed Oerter rifles I've seen pictures of. Unfortunately out west all we ever get to see are pictures. These are more continental/German. This really puts it closer to the Edward Marshall rifle. I've always attributed the Edward Marshall rifle to Oerter based on the similarity of the carving to Oerter's wire inlay work. This is an important piece if it can be identified and photographed. Good luck in your search. 

[rich pierce]

Very exciting rifle and agree similar to the Marshall rifle. I like the guard and that part reminds me of the guard on RCA 40.