Did Douglas make swamped barrels?

[Jerry V Lape]

Just curious as I have a Douglas barrel which is swamped.  What steels did they use?

[B Shipman]

Yes. And they were made the same way they made their straight barrels.  They bored an already formed exterior.  They had three contours only if memory serves, according to caliber.

[B Shipman]

P.S. Leaded screw stock 1014L.

[FlintFan]

And they were made the same way they made their straight barrels.

They extruded swamped profiles? I would have to imagine they didn't use their standard extruded octagon stock they used for their standard barrels.  It would have been far easier to use regular round stock and mill them swamped, then do their standard boring/rifling.  

I could be wrong but I've never heard of one of their swamped barrels bursting, which again leads me to believe the problem with the Douglas barrel phenomenon wasn't the material as much as it was flaws in the extruded octagon stock they used.  That is all a pretty much moot point now though.

[Dennis Glazener]

Have no idea of how Douglas milled the swamp in their barrels but I have heard that some early (contemporary) barrel makers used hydraulic pressure to jack the mid-section higher so the cutter would take more metal off in the mid-section. Always wondered how accurate this would be.
Dennis

[EC121]

It worked but it caused the barrel to be flexed eight different directions.  This and the original octagon extrusion caused stresses in the metal.  It would move as it heated up during shooting.  Some people stress relieved them by putting the swamped and even straight barrels over a long gas burner for a time with periodic rotation to let the metal work out the stresses.  I think Rice does that now as part of the manufacturing process.

[little joe]

Dennis, I think Bill Large used that method. Douglas did not make swamped bbl,s. It seams to me Allegheny Rifle Works bought from Douglas and swampted them.Old timers, help me on this

[heinz]

I do not think Bill said Douglass extruded their barrels. He said they drilled after they were formed. That was not unique.  Jack Weichold who made barrels for many of the early top flight bench shooters in the NMLRA drilled barrels after they were milled to shape  If I recall correctly he had a Pratt and Whitney boring machine.  Bob Roller probably knows
If you hog down on a milling machine usiing excess pressure the piece gets pushed away from the cutter and you get a bow, not a swamp.   Bill Large may have done that a time or two.

[FlintFan]

Ah, I could see how I misinterpreted what Bill said.  Makes sense. 

[rsells]

It has been so many years back that my memory is a bit dim, but I use a swamped Douglas barrel a few years after I started down this road and , if my memory is correct, the the outside finish looked about the same as the straight barrels I was using then.  It may have been that it had been laying in stock somewhere and got character on the outside during that time.  My attention to detail then was not like I have today.  I remember that it did have Douglas markings on the outside.  I picked it up at Friendship from one of the venders on one of my trips.  That was my first and last swamped barrel that I inlet by hand.  Seems like it took me a bit over 30 hours to get it like I wanted it to be, and I started farming the work out after that.
                                                                                       Roger Sells

[Roger B]

Bob Roller can correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Large did use the hydraulic jack in the middle technique.  At least I had a barrel that was swamped, and had the distinctive hydraulic planer marks down the barrel.  Douglas, to my knowledge, never made swamped barrels.  Their barrels were extruded and then drilled, though I don't doubt that some owners swamped them after purchase.  I wouldn't want one.
Roger B.

[David Rase]

Here are photos of my .45 caliber Douglass XX tapered and flared barrel.  I have been saving it for a personal gun.  I have no fear of shooting it.

[C Wallingford]

It has been so many years back that my memory is a bit dim, but I use a swamped Douglas barrel a few years after I started down this road and , if my memory is correct, the the outside finish looked about the same as the straight barrels I was using then.  It may have been that it had been laying in stock somewhere and got character on the outside during that time.  My attention to detail then was not like I have today.  I remember that it did have Douglas markings on the outside.  I picked it up at Friendship from one of the venders on one of my trips.  That was my first and last swamped barrel that I inlet by hand.  Seems like it took me a bit over 30 hours to get it like I wanted it to be, and I started farming the work out after that.
                                                                                       Roger Sells

Roger I had a swamped Douglas in 45 caliber that I got from someone at Friendship back in the 1970's. I think I paid $50 for it. It was marked XX and it was a fine shooter. Like you I didn't pay much  attention to detail back then so I can't tell you about the finish etc.

[Bob Roller]

Bill Large used no hydraulic jack but mechanically sprung the swamped barrels with wedges.
He had a "barrel jack" that used a screw thread to straighten barrels that came from an armory,
Springfield I think.

Bob Roller

[EC121]

The straight octagon Douglas barrels weren't machined that way.  They used cold rolled( I said extruded in an earlier post) octagon stock that was drilled and rifled.  It had a sort of burnt on finish.  Probably burnt on oil from forming that had to be draw filed off to get to bare metal.  Never had a swamped Douglas.  I bought a straight one from Charlie Hafner's store in 1977 that took two days to draw file.

[Jerry V Lape]

Here is photo of the muzzle of the barrel I am trying to get a positive identity.  I have been told Douglas marked the muzzle in this manner.  The barrel is swamped and there are no other markings.  Would this marking be consistent with Douglas and the rifling correct too?

[David Rase]

Here is photo of the muzzle of the barrel I am trying to get a positive identity.  I have been told Douglas marked the muzzle in this manner.  The barrel is swamped and there are no other markings.  Would this marking be consistent with Douglas and the rifling correct too?

Those stamps on the muzzle look out of place compared to the other Douglas barrels I have seen.  The crown and muzzle as well as the finish on the side flats does not look like a Douglas barrels to me either.
David

[Mike Brooks]

Weren't Sharon barrels stamped at the muzzle like that?

[EC121]

It doesn't look right for a Douglas muzzle.  Look at the breech and see if the bore is a little off center.  They put the drill run out at the breech.  The "G.R.Douglas" trademark marked flat indicated where the run out was.  You were supposed to put that up or down to eliminate as much windage error as possible.  The "XX" marked barrels were the ones that had little or no drill run out.

[B Shipman]

EC121 is correct. XX was their premium barrel based on concentricity.

[A.Merrill]

Dennis, I think Bill Large used that method. Douglas did not make swamped bbl,s. It seams to me Allegheny Rifle Works bought from Douglas and swampted them.Old timers, help me on this

  Joe,  you are right.  I still have one of these barrels in a .54cal.  Some of you guys that has Muzzle Blast mags from the late 70's can find thier advertisements.    Al

[Clowdis]

If my memory serves me correctly, and sometimes it doesn't, Douglas sold swamped barrels made by Allegheny rifle barrel co. Allegheny would get the barrels from Douglas, swamp them, and sell them to the public. You could buy the same barrel from either company.

[Squirrel pizza]

My SMR has a Douglas swamped barrel. Marked GR Douglas XX. I'd like to see how it was made just for the education, but when it comes down to it I really don't care. It's about the best shooting rifle barrel I've ever owned. Isn't that the important thing?

[JCKelly]

About 30 years ago I analyzed the drop from one of my 7/8" X .45 cal Douglas
barrels.
Both the microstructure and the chemistry fit AISI 12L14. The "L" is for leaded. The "12" part means resulphurized, with a phosphorus addition. These make this metal so it can be machined at high speed,  with nice, short crumbly chips.

[Steve-In]

Dave Rase's barrel was milled or planed octagon.  You can see the machine marks between the .45 and the breech.  You can also see them up the barrel.
Jerry's barrel appears to be cold rolled octagon.  I have no idea how they could get this form.
Down and dirty swamping can be done on a mill by placing a shim or shims between the barrel and the mill bed and clamping the barrel at the breech and muzzle.  After you make the first flat rotate the barrel to the opposite flat and double the shim thickness.  Keep going until done.  i know a guy that did this to a couple of barrels until commercial swamped were available.  They shot good and I do not know of him having problems with them warping or squirreling when it got hot.