"Swamping" a straight barrel ?

[davec2]

I am building a matched set of 3/4 scale flint rifles using a pair of Douglas, .32 cal barrels I purchased from Log Cabin back in the late 1970's.  They were originally 13/16 across the flats and 40 inches long.  I cut them down to 32 inches, milled and then draw filed them to 0.690" across the flats, and then re-breached them.  They are very slick little barrels, but I am thinking about having someone swamp them for me as I really don't have the time to attempt this myself at the moment.  Any suggestions on who I should talk to about swamping a pair of these little barrels?.....Or if I should really bother doing it?

[hanshi]

I wouldn't, myself.  However, I have a friend who had an old barrel he was building into a new rifle.  He hand swamped it by draw filing, and although I haven't seen it yet, he told me you have to look very carefully to see any imperfections, of which there are very few.  He's built guns before so I trust he does a good job on the barrel.

[45-110]

hello
I have swamped a few by hand years ago, lots of draw filing. check your work with a micrometer as you go and you can have a perfect profile for a lot of work.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I tried doing one by hand using a file -- gave up after the 3rd day. I also tried doing it on the mill and found for me it was just not worth the trouble -- I now buy them swamped - I'm not a young man anymore .

[davec2]

Let me clearly state that I have NO intention of doing this by hand.....or even doing it myself.  If I have it done at all, I'm looking for a barrel smith that can do this on a machine.  And if I get really crazy, I will set these barrels aside and have Ed Rayl custom make a pair for me.

[Hungry Horse]

 Back when if you had a swamped barrel on your gun, you either had rerifled an old barrel, or were a closet barrel maker. I ran into a guy that regularly swamped his own barrels. He took medium, to heavy, barrels from good makers. He chucked them up in a metal cutting lathe at the local High School's adult education night class, and reduced the waist of the barrel enough so he only had to hand file the new flats.

  Hungry Horse

[Bob Roller]

I tried doing one by hand using a file -- gave up after the 3rd day. I also tried doing it on the mill and found for me it was just not worth the trouble -- I now buy them swamped - I'm not a young man anymore .

I still have some big,half round multicut files that do for someone
that is energetic enough to hand file a barrel to swampt it. I'd
think 12L14 would be easily worked with such an aggressive tool.
These are sharp,new old stock American made Simonds.
These are $40 each which is about the cost of an imported file this
size that comes to you already worn out. The $40 includes a mailing
cylinder as well as USPS price.

Bob Roller

[Tim Crosby]

 And if I get really crazy, I will set these barrels aside and have Ed Rayl custom make a pair for me.

 Hi Dave,
   Have you talked to Ed? He may be able to do it for you.

  Tim

PS: I hand filed one years ago, the worst part about it was when I found out I only had to  really do 5 sides  TC

[Darkhorse]

I would think you could set up an indexing head with a live center on a Numerical controlled mill. Then program a simple program using a side cutting endmill. After finishing one flat you would index the head to a new position and do another flat. I would run a duplicate program using a 1" carbide side cutting endmill to control your final dimensions and give you a smooth finish.
Back in the day I would have jumped on something like this.
Any good NC shop should be able to do this. Make sure they practice some trial cuts on other material before you let them cut those barrels.

[sqrldog]

Bobby Hoyt can probably do it for you. He swamped a barrel for me several years ago. He made a nice swamped barrel out of a straight taper. It looked as it was always swamped when he returned it to me. Tim

[DuncanvonYeast]

On Douglas barrels you can not swamp them they are cold forged and have a lot of internal stress. If you try they will banana, This is with a file or a machine. I tried to have one done by Hoyt and he told me the same thing.

                                              Duncan von Yeast

[Clark Badgett]

If you find someone that offers this service let me know. I got a couple of pistol barrels I would like swamped or tapered.

[stuart cee dub]

The better rifle makers stress relive their swamped barrels
so they not only look good but shoot good as well.

Most rifles made today are more swamped than the originals that were lightly swamped.
Today such lightly swamped barrels just aren't that popular with modern builders.
They lack that lively feel and ultra lean look.

After bobbing these down to 32'' I would think these should be plenty light enough already
but aesthetics and good shooting can be two different things , the fork in the road.
My best shooting rifles are all comparatively heavy for caliber in the barrel.

My two cents would be ...Either build them as is or have purpose built barrels made if cost isn't factor.
You might find the by the time you have these swamped down, pay for the machine time and the shipping
you might have been better off ordering what you envisioned in the first place and properly stress relived as well.

The other dangerous thing to have in the shop is odd ball barrels .These lead to some crazy project ideas which is a time killing distraction as they sit there making your mind try to create a home for them perhaps different than the original idea you might have had years ago when you bought them.
It's rabbit hole.
I spend lots of time there.


  
 

[J. Talbert]

I don't have a suggestion for who to do it, but from my experience it's worth doing. 

I made a 3/4 scale rifle years ago with a swamped .32 caliber barrel that was only 0.75" across the flats at the breech.  The problem however was that even though the rifle fit my son just fine size wise,  it was still muzzle heavy for a child that size.  So I would take as much weight out of the barrel as possible.

Jeff

[Daryl]

Never swamped a barrel, but did take a round blank and turn it into an octagon - full length - only 34" though.  That was a LOT of draw filing.  A swamped barrel should be easy.

[Bob Roller]

Never swamped a barrel, but did take a round blank and turn it into an octagon - full length - only 34" though.  That was a LOT of draw filing.  A swamped barrel should be easy.

I have also done this ONCE when I was 18.The passage of the last 62 years have taught me the error
of such ways, That and the 1967 purchase of a milling machine.

Bob Roller

[thecapgunkid]

I swamped the corners rather than the flats off a 35" Jaeger Barrel  once.  It did not do much for the weight, but God bless it that rifle hefted differently, as if its balance improved. It shot true, but I traded it because I did not like the .58 round.

Based on all the advice I got on the forum, I made sure to file, measure, file measure, file measure until I realized too much time had gone by.

It was enough work that I would not do it again.

[SingleMalt]

L.C. Rice or Ed Rayl could probably do it.  However, I think that by the time all is said and done, you could buy two small swamped barrels.

[Bob Roller]

On Douglas barrels you can not swamp them they are cold forged and have a lot of internal stress. If you try they will banana, This is with a file or a machine. I tried to have one done by Hoyt and he told me the same thing.

                                              Duncan von Yeast

WHAT type of Douglas barrel will warp beyond helping? Is it a
muzzle loader octagon barrel made from 12L14 or a blank for
a magnum center fire made from 4150??

Bob Roller

[JCKelly]

Don't do it.

Douglas muzzle loading barrels were heavily cold drawn to octagon shape, from round bar.
They have very high residual stress in them. Unless you got the nice, black 7-groove barrels from Golden Age years ago, those were stress relieved. That is why they were black.

With enough care to take off the same small amount from each opposite side while swamping the thing might stay straight.

But there is one more dimension to consider. That is bore diameter.

The Douglas barrels which I have examined had high tensile stress outside, balanced by equally high compressive stress in the bore. As you remove metal from the outside, you are removing metal with residual tensile stresses.
Tensile and compressive stresses WILL balance, or the thing will wander across the room.
So the compressive stresses in the bore will reduce.

Huh?

The diameter of the bore will change. I believe it will become larger.

Anyway the thing will never shoot well, no matter what you do.

Sincerely, Your Forum P.I.T.A. metallurgist, Jim Kelly

[Buffaload]

JC, he already milled them so the bores may be squirrelly now.
I can't stand working with any cold formed material. It moves like crazy.
I made an under rib out of 1018 cold rolled once. Never again.

Ed

[davec2]

The barrels were originally 13/16.  I milled them to 0.690 across all 8 flats.  The barrels are still nice and straight after taking .061 off each flat so I don't anticipate that swamping them would cause any further difficulty.  However, as I mentioned, I have no intention of swamping anything with a file.  Life is too short to spend that much time on these barrels.  I will give a few of the barrel makers (who use machines to do this) a call....Or, as I said, I may have a couple of custom barrels made.  I could use these as they are, but I have gotten used to the look of a swamped barrel and if I'm going to spend the time to build a matched set of little rifles, I might as well build them like I want them.