Gun stock repair ?

[swordmanjohn]

  I resently did a stock repair and was wondering if someone  would tell me what they thought? I posted this on "gun building" and got 145 views but not one comment until i realized that it may be a liability issue.
So before you respond let me say " I hold no one responsible for their answer or opinion.
What i did was drill 6 holes in the stock (3 on each side) and then injected wood glue and tapped in hard wood dowels. After it set I cut off flush the dowels and sanded smooth and refinished.
Since i have never done this before, My question is will this hold together? Its a 69 caliber smoothbore . Here is a picture.   <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/2j34six.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url]   http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2j34six&s=5

[swordmanjohn]

more pictures 

[swordmanjohn]

 what i did was follow the crack line with wood dowels 

[G. Elsenbeck]

Do you have a pic of a side view, say from the front of the lockplate to the buttplate to aid in a better perspective?  I assume from the pictures it is a Tulle and the wood is walnut?
Gary

[Jerry V Lape]

My opinion is that aside from allowing you to get glue into the crack, the hole and the dowels did nothing to reinforce the break.  The dowels will probably act like wedges with humidity changes and cause the crack to open even wider.  If you are going to try strengthening the wrist, which apparently is broken thru  from side to side in the wrist,  a threaded  steel rod  parallel to the axis of the wrist drilled in from the either the butt or the back of the barrel channel would  be hidden completely and would span the broken area with new strength where it is now fractured.  you might also be able to get a screw up from under the trigger guard  tail to pull the two parts together. 

[Daryl]

Jerry's points are spot-on. The dowels in my opinion, are poor and non-helpful. Dissimilar woods, looks like maple dowels in the walnut stock will have different expansion and contraction values. Good wood glue is as strong or stronger than the better epoxies, but is not generally waterproof. Some are, though. Dang - the holes are about impossible to work with now.  I'd now get some "Ultra-thin" cyanoacrylate glue from a hobbie shop and see if it will wick into the crack by capilary action, then cross-pin the stock using screws. Got any elephant ear raw-hide?

[Dave K]

I have seen similar ways of hiding bolts on SxS modern guns. I have always wondered if a way to hide this bolts or plugs somewhat, would be to get some like colored wood, if walnut or maple, use the same kind of wood. But, instead of using the wood like a dowel, which is fine for the glue joint, but on the top 1/16" or what ever use the very same grain direction to plug the repair. I am not sure you can totally make it go away, but you may reduce it's appearance by allot! JMHO

[Roger Fisher]

Well now you got your foot in it

Pondering on it, I wonder if you are in to buck skinning?  Don't mean skinning buck   I do mean if you run with skinners and thoseclose to nature folks.  I do admire them and shoot with them often (very often) don't misunderstand they are nice folks.  But what I'm getting at is a rawhide wrist wrap may solve your hypertension and spouse abuse problem over this.  Get your self some such rawhide soak it well wrap it tight round that wrist let dry (and hard).  Then you can tell the folks that it is a 'field fix' and no one but you will know ('cept us and I wont tell if you don't)!!  I understand that the big dog leather bones are rawhide.

As mentioned before you could also drill out the top of those glaring plugs and fit
matching wood then stain. 

[l.cutler]

I agree with the others I think at best the dowels did nothing, at worst they did more harm than good.  If the crack is horizontal, I think the dowels should have been done vertically.  If that is one of the "rosewood" Indian made guns, they are notorious for stock breaking in the wrist.

[bryanbrown]

Sorry but going to add my voice to the chorus here, these pins are not repairs, they have only served to weaken the stock. I also concurr on the wedge concerns. The repair should have either gone through at a 90 degrees to the break. Or better in from the breech down the wrist. 

I would either drill down the wrist from the breech face through the crack and glue in a dowel there.  Or wrap with rawhide or copper sheeting, both would be period appropriate repairs.  Both require heating the material as part of the attachment process.  If you go with copper, tack in one side, and have everthing trimmed to finished fit.  Heat the copper with a torch, and when the whole sheet is hot (it needn't glow)  pull tight with pliers and tack in with the tacks at an angle to help snuge the copper down.  Then as with rawhide as it cools it will shrink and help snug up the repair.  You will have to work FAST at this point. 

Depending how bad the original crack was I might do both repairs.

[Dphariss]

  I resently did a stock repair and was wondering if someone  would tell me what they thought? I posted this on "gun building" and got 145 views but not one comment until i realized that it may be a liability issue.
So before you respond let me say " I hold no one responsible for their answer or opinion.
What i did was drill 6 holes in the stock (3 on each side) and then injected wood glue and tapped in hard wood dowels. After it set I cut off flush the dowels and sanded smooth and refinished.
Since i have never done this before, My question is will this hold together? Its a 69 caliber smoothbore . Here is a picture.   <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/2j34six.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">[/url]   http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2j34six&s=5

If I were you I would buy a 5/16 in  12" long twist drill at the hardware store.
Disassemble the gun.
WAX!!! the external areas of the stock around the wrist, the breech end of the barrel, the breech plug tang and the tang screw and trigger plate, including the threads, with paste floor wax. If the breech plug is recessed into the barrel at the breech make sure the acra-glas cannot lock it in by getting into some recess. If you fail this waxing the assembly could become permanent.
Let dry and repeat the waxing to assure everything is covered smooth areas need just a coating. I simply fill threaded holes with wax and the screw then forces the the still soft "plug" out.

Starting in the tang inlet, maybe at the tang screw hole, carefully eyeball the alignment and drill down the middle of the wrist to a point well past the crack, 2-3"
Using the red box Brownells acra-glas (NOT CHEAPO HOBBY STORE OR HARDWARE STORE STUFF) glue in a piece of 1/4" piano wire (hobby store) or in a bigger hole use 3/8" plastic/fiberglass loading rod or a piece of dowel (third choice). Make it long enough that it  fills the hole to about the tang screw. Drilling piano wire is tough so don't block the screw hole with it.
Pour some acra-glas into the hole and then put in the rod the glas should come out of the slightly oversized hole before the rod bottoms out so the hole is full or glass. Install the waxed parts and let the excess glas squeeze out. It will not stick to the waxed parts or the stock where it is waxed and can be lightly wiped ot simply allowed to set and then chip it off the waxed surface. It will pop right off.
Now since its a musket make a thin sheet steel or brass plate the wraps the wrist and covers the dowels. Screw it down with small wood screws.
It thin appears to be a period correct repair.
The dowel/rod down the wrist is how a crack is repaired with a dowel.
There is really no need to disassemble the gun unless you want to look at the tang mortise to see how the "glass bedding" works.


Dan

[Daryl]

Good instructions, Dan, and of course, a 'better' repair.

[swordmanjohn]

thanks for the advise, it was actually somewhat of a hair line crack . After I sanded and refinished the stock i gave it 2 coats of polyurethane .. something i dont usually do but it seemed to seal it. I would much rather use tung oil instead.

[Gene Carrell]

I agree with Dan's great repair instructions. In addition, you could do a "cover-up" on the dowels with walnut laminate available from owel repair will not disappear, but will blend  in better. In thinking about it, the copper sheet already described may bring more acceptable results. Dan's 'through-the-wrist' repair is required to strengthen that area in the long term. (IMHO)

[Candle Snuffer]

Was the hair line crack noticable on both sides?  Would the same repair that Dan relates to us be the way to go, or would going with Daryl's repair option be the way to go;

"cyanoacrylate glue from a hobbie shop and see if it will wick into the crack by capilary action, then cross-pin the stock using screws."

If the screws were countersunk they could be capped off with walnut dowel with the cyanocrylate bonding them in - then worked down flush with the stock and finished over.

I guess where I'm going with this is, does a hair line crack require the repair Dan has suggested, or do we look at other means such as Daryl suggested?

Personally in my building projects I have not run into this as yet, and although I don't build rifles on the scale I use to (haven't built one in three years), should I ever start another project the information would be good to know should it happen to me, or someone elses stock.

[Dphariss]

For the initial repair.

Assuming the the crack would close under pressure.
Wax the EXTERIOR finished portions of the stock lightly with paste wax avoiding the area within 1/8" or so of the break.
With the forend in a padded vise, probably muzzle down so gravity aids the glue flow and put pressure on the buttstock to slightly spread the break.
Then with a hypodermic syringe and a  *BLUNTED* needle I would apply Elmer's carpenter or Titebond as far into the  crack as possible from any place the rounded nose needle will fit *gently*. Its blunted so it will follow the crack and not dig in and raise burrs and splinters that will keep the crack open too much force will mar the fit of the break as well. Press closed then repeat this twice in rapid sucession to spread the glue to the areas the needle will not reach. Don't be conservative with the glue. Messy is just fine for beginners.
This should glue most areas of the break. Now wrap with 3-4 feet of surgical tubing stretching it slightly as you wrap. This will squeeze glue out and make a mess. Wipe up the excess with a damp paper towel and clean any inletting.
DO NOT wrap around the lock mortise with the lock removed or it will be crushed in just a few wraps (try wrapping this stuff on your hand) it applies a LOT of pressure.
Let the glued and wrapped stock set over night.
Remove the wrap and clean off the excess glue. May need some steel wool.
NOW do the above dowel repair.
This technique will also fix complete breaks as well. In fact with modification it will fix about any broken piece of wood. The glue joint is stronger than the wood in most cases. BUT DOWEL IT ANYWAY.

If it will not close far enough, spread the crack and look for the reason. Try not to break it off completely. You may find a chip or two that will simply fall out or you may need to remove some erupted wood with a small chisel.
It will be necessary to remove the trigger guard to wrap the wrist if its a rifle type with a "rail" fowler types with the rear extension set in the wood can be done with the guard in place.
If the wrist is completely broken use the metal parts to keep everything aligned for gluing. If necessary to keep it for alignment you can block the TG rail to prevent its being crushed but be aware the block may compress into the wood. The tubing REALLY clamps stuff. Its best to try complex setups like this "dry" to see how its going to work before getting it glued. The carpenters glue will set rapidly once clamped so once the glue phase is started GET IT DONE. Taking too much time game cause problems too if the glue starts to set before its clamped tight.
With any luck this makes an invisible or at least difficult to detect repair.

Dan

[Candle Snuffer]

Thanks Dan for the added information.  Hope I never have to do it, but it's good to know how if I ever do.

[swordmanjohn]

Drilling 2 small holes in a 90 degree angle of the crack and then counter sinking 2 screws into the stock with a walnut plug to cover it is sounding pretty good . And yes, it is on both sides but only half way around on each side. Like i said it looked like a minor crack but i didnt want it to come apart. Guess ill have to call it my fusil dowel gun.