Duplicating steel parts from brass parts

[Squirrel pizza]

Hello again, I've got a Hawkenish rifle that is has brass furniture, I've blacked it and it looks good but normal wear and tare will eventually show its brass, not to mention I like the patina of aged steel. I know it's in reverse of normal gun making, but does anyone sand cast or otherwise duplicate brass parts to steel? If I sent a butt plate and trigger guard of brass could you(any one out there) make it to match in steel ? Thanks, Mike

[AeroE]

If you have a Thompson Center Hawken, everything but the patch box is available from TOTW, The Hawken Shop, and a couple of other places.

I know I have seen steel patch boxes in the past for this rifle, but I have looked high and low for one and they appear to be unicorns nowadays.

I would not try to make an exact copy in steel, I'd make it just a tad larger for a tight inlet.  The Hawken Shop sells a larger "pineapple" style box that could be substituted, too.

I think it's better to darken the stock brass in this case and shoot the gun.

[Mike Brooks]

Hello again, I've got a Hawkenish rifle that is has brass furniture, I've blacked it and it looks good but normal wear and tare will eventually show its brass, not to mention I like the patina of aged steel. I know it's in reverse of normal gun making, but does anyone sand cast or otherwise duplicate brass parts to steel? If I sent a butt plate and trigger guard of brass could you(any one out there) make it to match in steel ? Thanks, Mike

You could send those parts off and have molds made from them and then have waxes run off those  molds then steel castings run off of the waxes. Probably only cost you a couple thousand or so.

[smallpatch]

Decision to make........live with it,  OR trade it in for the style you really like.
You didn't mention what that "Hawkenish" gun is. 
Is it worth the time, effort, money to do what you're trying to do?
You could buy a nice custom gun for what it would cost to have the parts made.

[Daryl]

Just your regular Hawkins gun.  I'd think selling that one and buying a Lyman GPR Hawkins-Gun would be a better way to go, rather than spending any money on the brass Hawkinsish-gun.

[Squirrel pizza]

Thought it might be cost prohibitive but figured I'd ask. You never know when you'll run into a fellow whose hobby is copying things in steel from brass. It could happen.

[Mike Brooks]

Thought it might be cost prohibitive but figured I'd ask. You never know when you'll run into a fellow whose hobby is copying things in steel from brass. It could happen.

Yep, It could. I might get rich building guns one day too......

[b bogart]

Hey Aero I think I have one of those unicorns in the shop, in "kit" form. Don't know where it came from, possibly one of the vendors in Friendship in the mid-80"s???

[Dave B]

The other thing to consider is that the casted metal always shrinks a % from the original pattern. This posses a problem if your trying to get it to fit the patterns inlet, your going to end up short with the new steel parts. The shrinkage for steel is 2% vs brass at 1.4%

[AeroE]

Hey Aero I think I have one of those unicorns in the shop, in "kit" form. Don't know where it came from, possibly one of the vendors in Friendship in the mid-80"s???

I don't recall kits, but anything is possible.  Maybe TC's custom operation made the parts, but that is water way under the bridge.

[Squirrel pizza]

Keep the faith Mike. Keep the faith.

[jerrywh]

 here is the URL for a shrink rate on different castings.  http://www.calculatoredge.com/charts/mshrinka.htm
However you must know that the shrinkage is not the only factor to consider. After the part is cast it needs to be refinished. For a sand casting that will remove some more material. And if it is precision cast the shrinkage will be even more because then you will have wax shrinkage on top of the steel shrinkage. That will be 3% or more. There is not simple solution. I have done a lot of reproduction. Remember the shrinkage is in evry dimension Length, width and thickness. 

[frogwalking]

I once had a TC "Hawken" with casehardened steel  triggerguard and buttplate.  Long long time ago.  In the early days, TC made them that way.

[Squirrel pizza]

I knew it was a long shot but figured I try. It's not a TC, but a custom rifle I picked up last year. I don't mind the brass, just prefer steel. Thanks all for your input.

[axelp]

Its nothing a ton of money won't solve.

A more economical plan is suggested above--- sell the gun with brass furniture and buy the gun you want.

K

[Mark Elliott]

If you were building from scratch,  the solution is to forge the mounts or make them from sheet.    There are a lot of folks who do that.   At one time,  I offered hand forged mounts for $500 a set, but decided it was more trouble than it was worth to me when I wasn't making the rifle.   Actually,  I just didn't like handing off partially finished mounts and then getting the blame when they weren't finished that way I would have done it.   Anyway,  that is the most cost effective way to get iron mounts.    That is the way it was done in the old days.

[axelp]

Mark that is really good advice. Sometimes the forest is hard to see due to all them pesky trees.... LOL

Handforging the parts would certainly be the best way, the most historically correct solution, and in so doing, a person would learn a TON. As long as the forged pieces had the same footprint or a frog hair larger, it would work out splendidly and you would end up with a gun with added value I would think.

cost is still an issue, and it would probably be cheaper to just sell the gun and buy a different one, but for the sake of knowledge and adding to our personal skill set... it might be worth it to forge ahead...

K

[Squirrel pizza]

Well if it's just money that stands in the way let's run with it. Working 70+ hours a week on other peoples projects. No time for my own. The last time I used my anvil I broke it with a rubber mallet.

[Mike_StL]

I knew it was a long shot but figured I try. It's not a TC, but a custom rifle I picked up last year. I don't mind the brass, just prefer steel. Thanks all for your input.

Have you looked through the Track of the Wolf catalog?  Since what you have is a custom rifle, ToW's catalog has the full size images of their parts so you may find the steel version of your brass parts.

[Squirrel pizza]

Yep. Looked at most sights like TOTW, Log Cabin, The Rifle Shoppe, etc. easier to fit wood to steel than vise versa. Even if I bought a pre made catalog part I'd still have to forge and fit. Don't have time. Trigger guard seems easier than butt plate, but I'm usually wrong. You can call home and ask my wife!

[Steve-In]

Posting a picture may get your answer, you know a picture is worth a 1000 words and all that.  Someone may recognize the parts used on your rifle.