Author Topic: Poor boy build question  (Read 4017 times)

BobBean

  • Guest
Poor boy build question
« on: December 07, 2016, 06:45:55 AM »
I'm building a Bean style poor boy .50. 
I was wanting to build a natural stock butt with no butt plate. 
I had given consideration to capping the butt with a horse hide and bronze nails.  Would that be something that would have been done? Or should I just leave it natural?  My first one I built to the "norm" and this one I wanted to make more simple.
Thanks

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 07:12:35 AM »
The norm for a Bean is fully iron mounted meaning that they had a full iron butt piece as well as a toe piece, patchbox, trigger guard, thimbles, nose piece, etc....    The Beans made fine, expertly crafted, rifles.   There were not generally "poor boys".   Some of the finest craftsmanship I have seen was on a Bean.   They just look deceptively simple being stocked in iron.   

Offline rsells

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 681
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 07:49:52 AM »
I am like Mark, I have never seen a Bean without a butt plate.  I have seen several Southern rifles without butt plates.  Most have nothing on the butt, but some have had material like bone or iron on the heal of the stock.
                                                                                                              Roger Sells

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2016, 02:38:12 PM »
Just leave the buttstock wood. Never seen an original Appalachia rifle with rawhide tacked over the butt. That would look pretty goofy IMO.
I have never seen an original poor boy with out a buttplate show excessive wear because of the lack of a buttplate.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

54ball

  • Guest
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2016, 06:04:37 PM »
Quote from: Mike Brooks
That would look pretty goofy IMO.
I'll add cheesy too IMHO.
 You'see stuff like that on Rondevous and modern Mountain Man guns. Originals....nope, and you'll see a lot stuff tacked on originals.

 Which Bean ?
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15464.0

 Early Bean...William 1770s
 No known Rifle is known to exist as far as I know. He likely was a rifle builder, but maybe not prolific since he would have been busy dodging Cherokee arrows . The rifle would be "early" research the Old Holston Rifle.

 Mid Bean...Jesse, Russel 1790-1820

 Some of these may be around. The rifles would look or should look like the work of a early John Bull.
 The Kennedys, Beans, Bulls, Thomas Simpson, Mathew Gillespie, Jacob Young and the Humbles of Kentucky were active in this period. I know this covers a large area NC to Kentucky to the Cumbeland to East TN to SW-Western Virginia. These types of rifles are the bridge from the earlier Colonial style to the later Southern Mountain style. Sorta ;)
 The Beans and Bulls were linked by marriage. The Indian Fighting Russels are linked to these families as well.
 A rifle from this period may have a stepped toe SW-VA-KY-Cumberland feature, may be in brass or iron, some may not have butt plates....some have heel, and toe plates but no actual butt plates....
 Basically if you were going to build a rifle in 50 caliber and without a buttplate I would choose this period. This style of rifle lends itself to larger calibers and the butt shape more suited to use with out a plate.....With that said fitting a plate is no big deal but finding a correct iron plate is. ::).
 
 Late Bean...Baxter 1830
 This is what most think of as a Bean Rifle.
 These have the deep crescent iron butt, and are in calibers below .45. ....This is the Classic Tennessee. This type of rifle is not really suited for .50 caliber and no buttplate but...you can build what you want.

 The easy button would be to contact Dennis Glazener (Gillespie Rifle Works) and get your wood stocked in his 1810 Mathew Gillespie pattern.

 

BobBean

  • Guest
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2016, 08:38:07 PM »
Thanks for all the input.  I built my first as a true Bean.  This one I'm mostly building with my son in mind and he's 6'8" and the stock when cut deep for the butplate just gets too short a LoP.    So I can keep 3/4" additional by tayloring the style a bit.  That way it will be a tad long for me but ok for him.  There is some reason behind my madness.  :)
I guess another option would be to get a simple plate forged for it?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 10:52:51 PM by BobBean »

Offline Mike Brooks

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13415
    • Mike Brooks Gunmaker
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2016, 12:11:24 AM »
Thanks for all the input.  I built my first as a true Bean.  This one I'm mostly building with my son in mind and he's 6'8" and the stock when cut deep for the butplate just gets too short a LoP.    So I can keep 3/4" additional by tayloring the style a bit.  That way it will be a tad long for me but ok for him.  There is some reason behind my madness.  :)
I guess another option would be to get a simple plate forged for it?
Generally, the buttstock was still curved as if it had a buttplate. They weren't just straight.  Also, a "simple plate" wasn't used either. It either had a buttplate or it didn't.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 12:12:32 AM by Mike Brooks »
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline DBoone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 199
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2016, 05:30:00 PM »
Ditto everything Mike Brooks said.....right on! ;D

BobBean

  • Guest
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2016, 10:45:33 PM »
I ordered a Golden Age butt stock which has less comb and hoping it will fit close to hhat I've cut to have a correct LOP for my son.  The deep cut for a true mountain rifle just eats up too much length.  But I guess there weren't too many 6'8" people back then either :).  If a gun doesn't fit right it never will aim right.

Offline Dennis Glazener

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19494
    • GillespieRifles
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2016, 12:03:53 AM »
Here is a photo of a Mathew Gillespie without a buttplate.


This rifle was built circa 1810 and see how the butt area has survived the years.


Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Don Stith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2815
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2016, 12:15:54 AM »
Correct LOP is a basis for a whole other discussion.  Many people think they need a lot longer LOP than they really do.  The toe of the crescent goes into the arm pit, not shouldered like a shotgun
  The old saw of measuring from inside of elbow to first joint of index finger will always give at least an inch too long.

Treebeard

  • Guest
Re: Poor boy build question
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2016, 08:48:50 PM »
The Gillespie may be a "poor boy" but whoever owned it over the years valued it and took care of it. It is beautiful in my old eyes.