Barrel underlugs/wandering drill bits

[Maurice]

Never one to leave good enough alone, I could use some advice/suggestions on removing flat based underlugs which have been “peened” to the barrel.

While drilling holes for barrel pins, my mostly finished kit forestock (rounded vs squared) turned and my drill bit wandered so I ended up with, (#1) - an underlug that has a hole close to the bottom edge of the lug and (#2), an underlug where the drill actually scored the base of the lug. And yes, the pins are not level.

While initially acceptable the situation has become somewhat like a tiny migrating pebble in my hiking boot – I have to stop and take care of it.

My main concern is whether the lips of the barrel dovetails can tolerate removal of the underlugs. They have already been peened once.  Could the hole in #1 be filled with solder (or just remove the lug)?  The pins are to be surrounded by inlays so the holes in the stock can be doweled and redrilled.

[kutter]

#1 you could remove the old lug by cutting through it w/a hacksaw and pulling it free of the dovetail. The bbl metal won't be disturbed.
File out the old dovetail to clear a path side to side with a 3-square file and fit a new lug into the newly shaped dovetail(s).
Peen them in again if you want or solder, epoxy or even a dab of loctite if you don't want to disturb that bbl metal if you feel they'r not secure enough.

#2..leave the old lug in place. Take a piece of thin sheet steel and bend it over double to fit over the lug portion itself. Pre-form it in a vise w/a piece of slave mat'l the same thickness as the lug wing in between the fold so it fit's nicely over the offending lug .
Then simply sweat soft solder that piece to the old lug,,it won't take much heat at all,an electric soldering gun will do it.  Trim it up to make it look nice but leave the fold in place.
A touch of re-inletting in the wood is necessary to accept the new thicker and a touch higher lug (though it can be made the exact same height as the old one if the old one is filed down a bit to allow for the fold over on the new repair piece).
Redrill the pin hole through the new 3 layer lug assembly.

Just a couple ideas..

[54ball]

 Can you tell this from looking at the rifle? How do these look compared to the rest? Will this really affect any forestock Moulding? On a swamped barrel they may not all be on the same plane anyway unless you planned it that way.

 If they do not mess up any lines in the forestock I might leave them be..

 If I had to fix one, I would fix #1. #2 is pretty close to ideal IMHO.
 Take a look at this JP Beck from the ALR mueseum.


 As far as fixing the lugs, you should be OK, worse case you could solder them in or simply make larger ones.

[Ky-Flinter]

(#2), an underlug where the drill actually scored the base of the lug. And yes, the pins are not level.

I agree with 54ball.  I don't see this one as a problem, unless the spacing makes it look funky on the outside of the forestock.  Replace the #1 lug, plug the stock, and redrill that one.

-Ron

[smallpatch]

A round toothpick glued in the misplaced hole will almost disappear.  Then mark your new hole, then use an awl to start your new hole and guide your drill bit.  That will help keep it from wondering.
Hope that helps.

[Mike Brooks]

Leave them alone and move on.

[P.Bigham]

 I would try to tap them out. I cant Imagine that they are peened in so solid that you couldn't tap them out. Use brass punch.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

When you drill barrel pin holes, use a high speed drill.  I use 1/16" pins and set my drill press at its highest rpm -2800.  But before I had a press, I used a hand held electric drill with a 2000 rpm motor.  You cannot drill the hole in one pass.  Make many controlled passes, removing chips as you go deeper into the wood, and steel.  Once a drill bit is plugged with hot chips, it will wander all over the place.

[James Rogers]

When you drill barrel pin holes, use a high speed drill.  I use 1/16" pins and set my drill press at its highest rpm -2800.  But before I had a press, I used a hand held electric drill with a 2000 rpm motor.  You cannot drill the hole in one pass.  Make many controlled passes, removing chips as you go deeper into the wood, and steel.  Once a drill bit is plugged with hot chips, it will wander all over the place.

Spot on. Learned the hard way some moons ago.

[jerrywh]

 There is a correct process for drilling these holes that prevents the drill from wandering. After you have marked the hole exactly where you want it start the hole with an ice pick. Stick the pick in the hole and use it to make a large enough short hole for the drill tip to go in. That will stop the drill from wandering off when you begin to drill.  In addition to that, shorten up on the drill bit so that only about 1/4" of the bit is protruding from the chuck. Then the drill cannot flex. When bits flex you end up with the type problem you have. Besides that you need to use either a tool like Dave Race sells for a guide or use the drill press and position a point in the bottom exit hole point with the drill and lower point aligned. Then drill the holes half way through from each side. Done properly those holes can be within .005 or closer when they meet.
 We have all done what you have. It's almost mandatory.

[Maurice]

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. After re-reading my initial post I did not really make it clear that I was more concerned about pin appearance/position in the stock rather than the appearance of the underlugs. They (pins) are angled either forward or downward or both. The advice in the replies should help me get it right on the re-do. (Although I now see an advantage to working on a stock that square from breech to muzzle versus a partially finished stock that has only a squared stock section mid-way – for the novice anyway.)

[B.Habermehl]

I use a variation of Jerry's method, after double checking my lay out I use a scriber to wiggle in my starting hole. Then I use a model makers pin vise with a drill the size I want my pin holes to be chucked in it to start drilling my holes on location with my fingers. This way I can accurately drill a hole on tangent from a curved surface. You can easily fudge at this stage. Then I go to the drill press to finish. I use a homemade table extension to make holding the stock accurately easier. I use a 1 by 4 for my table extension. The slight bit of droop in use actually compensates nicely for the lock pannel to forend taper. Just be sure your lock panels are square to the top flat of your barrel. I use no clamps for this operation except for the clamp holding the barrel sucurely in the stock. BJH

Actually I use this same method for drilling all of my cross pin holes.

[Acer Saccharum]

While I like to have the pins end up in a groove of the forestock moulding, it is rare that one or two just don't end up where you want them. That matters little to some. Like me. It does not ruin the gun. It adds humanity.

When doing a high art piece, and you are expecting everything to be just-so, you understandably have to get things exactly where they need to be. I believe this is beyond the output of most shops of the 18th Century, and 21st as well. We are making tools, not trophy guns. But if perfection is what you wish for, by all means, go for it. Just know Im not going to judge your work by its pin placement. We need some perspective in our work, and we need to show our work to others to get that.

Hideous example of pin placement:


I wish I had a photo of the same side finished; this will have to do.