hawken cheek(full stock)

[Joe S.]

[ ][/]when I cut the stock down to a better LOP for me I had to reshape the cheek to better proportions,look good to you folks?To get the height I used as somebody posted about splitting the butt plate into quarters and connecting a line thru to the lock plate screw.Seemed to look right,removing the same amount of wood from the height as well as lenth. Still up in the air about the flute seen on some originals thoughts?comments?Still plenty to do

[ron w]

i'd point the bottom edge of the cheek piece a little more towards the middle of the wrist, maybe even just a bit above middle. It looks like that edge droops a bit towards the front of the cheek piece.

[Herb]

Here is an original Hawken rifle in the Montana State Historical Museum in Helena.

[sqrldog]

Joe S
I assume from your question you are building a fullstock Hawken with a Tn style cheek piece.  If you don't have access to books you can look under Michael Simens Antique rifles for sale. With a little searching you will find an original Hawken fullstock with a cheek piece like the one you are trying to create. A picture is worth a thousand words.  Just remember late period rifles have only a vestige of a cheek piece. They're not very high. Tim

[David Rase]

Here is a link to photos of an original Hawken with a non beavertail cheekpiece.  http://www.historicalarms.com/antique-guns-rifles-muskets-carbines-for-sale/hawken-rifle-for-sale.html I used this cheekpiece pattern on my full stock Hawken.
David

[Joe S.]

thanks for the input,have seen that one and have it on file as well as others and looks like I will need to take mine up in front a little to level it off.Seems like I put it on the wrong side of the rifle compared to the others

[ron w]

if look closely and use a straight edge, you'll discover that the bottom edge of cheek piece projects to the center of the wrist at the lock panel. that is more or less "standard architecture" for that style of cheek piece.

[Joe S.]

[ ][/url]still needs some work but getting there.Still pondering the flute detail,opinions?

[Herb]

Here are some Hawken cheekpieces from Jim Gordon's book "Great Gunmakers for the Early West, Volume III".  He gave me permission to copy these photos to be helpful to us.  First is a full stock conversion rifle marked J&S HAWKEN  ST LOUIS.  Lock may not be original.

An S. Hawken fullstock.

Full stock, barrel markings illegible.  Early features.

Full stock marked S. Hawken.

Half stock light sporting rifle marked S. Hawken.

Half stock light sporting rifle marked S. Hawken.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Joe:  I think those cheek pieces look best if they are not paralle to the bottom line of the butt stock.  In fact, I like them to be cut so there is more wood at the back end, between the bottom line of the cheek piece and the stock, than at the front.  In other words, there should appear to be some taper of that section below the cheek piece, wider at the back than at the front.  Too, the cheek piece itself should be shaved at least flat, and concave is better.  You will see examples on originals of every shape, but that's what I prefer, and try to emulate.

[Joe S.]

Taylor if I'm understanding you right your talking about looking at it from the bottom.As the cheek comes from the butt plate to the wrist it slims down some.I have taken mine down as such with some more to be done as I transition into the wrist.

[Joe S.]

Herb,thank you for offering up photos of more originals to study.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

No Joe, I'm discussing the profile on the cheek side.  The butt stock is triangular in shape, and if you do't create a cheek piece that is triangular to a small degree, it looks odd.  In your stock, the distance between the bottom line of the cheek at the back end appears closer to the bottom edge of the stock, than it does at the front.  To my eye, that is backward.

[Joe S.]

Taylor,perhaps its the shadow and angle of the picture.As it stands the bottom line is parallel with the bottom of he stock.Would you suggest perhaps taking 3/16" or so to increase the distance from  the bottom of the stock to the cheek towards the butt end?I'm thinking as I look at it there's to many straight lines and perhaps a line running not so parallel will soften up the look if that makes sense.

[Clark Badgett]

Joe, to my eyes when viewing the pictures, where the bottom edge is definable, it appears to have a subtle taper towards the wrist. Not a lot but some.

[ron w]

ie. Herbs pics...... if you take to long business cards or straight edges, and place them exactly as possible, on the bottom sdge of the stock and the edge of the cheek piece, what do you get in each pic. ?.  try it once......

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Joe, you could remove up to 3/16" from the rear bottom end of the cheek piece line to increase the tapered look, but try 1/8" first, and see how you like it.  In all the examples Herb posted, none of the bottom edges is parallel to the bottom of the stock, though some are close.
And make sure you take that big flat area off the cheek piece itself.  From your picture, that flat appears to occupy about 1/3 of the cheek piece.  A photo from the rear rather than a flat profile shot would make me feel better about that flat.

[Joe S.]

Thanks Taylor,before I make an adjustment I will post some pics from the rear

[Joe S.]

[ ][/ ]probably not the best shot.I have not really worked on shaping the profile of the cheek.I was still trying to nail down its general shape.What's giving it that flat look is probably the darker wood that has not been worked in a while.I did a little scraping ways back and after handling it for some time doing other tasks it darkened up.About the only thing I have for a quide profile wise is two plans one of which I am showing.Taylor does that diagram show a reasonable profile for the shape of the cheek?Its really a challenge to look at a side profile of a rifle and try to quess as to its shape from the back,thanks again for all your help.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

As you can see in the examples that Herb has posted, there are never two the same.  But there is still a theme running through them all.  The above picture is of a full stocked J & S Hawken I built several years ago now.  Your drawing shows a X section of a stock that is much more voluptuous than a Hawken rifle is.  In that example, there is a lot of wood to come off.

Here's another image of that same rifle.  I show these because it explains things more clearly than words, and may give you a guideline.  Yours doesn't have to be identical...as I said, no two are the same.

[Joe S.]

Thanks, those images will be a great help.Without seeing all the angles you can it makes it very difficult if not impossible to get it close to right.

[ron w]

no two are the same, simply because no two peples' cheeks are the same. these guns,....the originals....were build one off until very late in the hawken production time line. just like any stock maker of present times,  they knew the importance of a proper fitting stock and that these guns were built on order, for the most part, it wasn't any real inconvenience to shape cheek pads to better fit the individual that will use the gun. depending on the users face, some may be full and rounded and some may be hollowed, as the pictures display, or any degree of each shape in between, that is what "made to order" meant.. 

[Joe S.]

[ ][/url] Have a 3/16" taper,looks a little better to my eye.Still needs to be rounded over and more work in the toe area.Comments and advise always welcome.

[rich pierce]

Looking good all cleaned up.  I like that you did not make it too tall.  Lots of contemporary builds have cheekpieces that are taller than commonly found on originals.