Beginners wood question

[saltland]

 In selecting a kit to build many offer the option of curly,extra curly or fancy ,extra fancy/curly,extra curl maple.Obviously an upgrade is at an increased cost.Would you guys explain the differences and possibly post some pics showing the differences.Does it affect how the wood is worked/finished?
Thanks,
   Scott

[Whaleman]

Since I build very very slow (maybe 1 1/2 Years per build) I buy the very best wood I can get and work slow. Yes, very curly maple can be harder to shape  and carve. I have never wished I had bought a cheaper piece of wood. Dick at Pectonica always comes through with a great stock. Dan

[rich pierce]

Curly maple is harder to plane, chisel or spokeshave without chipping out. You just have to be careful.  A hard piece of curly maple still works better than a soft piece of straight grained maple. 

[WaterFowl]

ash.....hard dense wood..... makes a great rifle stock.

[PPatch]

Maple, like any wood sawn for a market, is graded just about as you listed Scott. The grading goes from plain straight grained to very convoluted, plain, to some curl, to extra-fancy. The more curl in maple the more expensive it is. A gun can be quite nice done in plain grained maple, which is easier to work as the more curl the stock has the more time is involved in avoiding chip out and ripples in the finished stock.

You didn't state what style of gun you intend to build, what style will it be? The style will in some degree determine the wood choice. Generally speaking for a first rifle you might not want to go with extra-fancy, but it is your project so who am I to say.

dave

[saltland]

 Hi PPatch
 Jim Chambers kit...Christian Springs Edward Marshall or Isaac Haines.
   Scott

[PPatch]

Hi PPatch
 Jim Chambers kit...Christian Springs Edward Marshall or Isaac Haines.
   Scott

All nice early style guns. Jim's kit guns are tops, you'll learn a lot completing one. It is up to you as far as how fancy a grain to choose, any of those will look good either fairly plain or extra fancy. As I and others have mentioned the fancier grain requires more care in shaping and finishing due to the tendency of more involved grain loving to chip out and being more difficult to relief carve for the same reason. If you have prior woodworking experience you will be a leg up on the deal.

I chose a Chambers Lancaster style as my first project and went with a medium grade sugar maple stock. It turned out ok but I see plenty of areas that it could be far better but the degree of curl is not one of those areas. Those styles you mentioned are going to require some relief carving, if you don't know it you will have to teach yourself the ins and outs of it. Doing so on an expensive stock will just add extra anxiety to the project.

It is generally recommended on the forum here for a first time builder to stick with a less fancy wood. I concur with that but only you know your skill levels so that is a consideration also. Even with a pre-carve there is a lot to know and learn about making a success of the project. The great thing about ALR is having access to so much willing help and being able to obtain answers. Don't hesitate to ask if you're not sure.

dave

[saltland]

Thanks for the advice.

[ron w]

learn al you can about sharpening and keeping your cutting edges sharp. the sharper they are the less they wil chip a highly figured oiece of wood and the safer the tool will be. I found in my 40+ years of woodworking that I wasn't getting really nice results until I learned how to really sharpen my tools and keep them that way. the sharp tool is safer because it is more predictable in what it will do and where it will go when you push on it and it will take less effort to cut, which makes it go where you want it to under full control.
   I think many guys are surprised how much better their work is when they learn how to really sharpen their chisels and irons, because they don't realize what "really sharp" is.

[P.W.Berkuta]

In selecting a kit to build many offer the option of curly,extra curly or fancy ,extra fancy/curly,extra curl maple.Obviously an upgrade is at an increased cost.Would you guys explain the differences and possibly post some pics showing the differences.Does it affect how the wood is worked/finished?
Thanks,
   Scott

If it was me I'd pick something in the middle -- not too plain and not too fancy this way you will know how to proceed when you build another (and you will). I leave the very very fancy extra curly wood to the "experts" it is way over my budget or my customers budget.

[ron w]

just like working end grain,...keeping extremely sharp cutting edges and scrapers and many very light cuts to avoid tear-out. worst thing you can do is get in a hurry. you can work fast, but you have to follow the above advice. you will get faster as you gain experience and confidence in what you feel as your tool works. a good piece of curly maple, one that has been cured correctly will be fairly stable and won't necessarily tear out if you keep the above advice in mind as you work. I think, to some extent, what scares new people about curly wood, is all the advice about how easily it tears out,....much of this advice comes from guys that don't really know what a sharp cutting tool is and have never really used one correctly.
    be careful, of high grade curly pre-shaped stocks that have been in the pre-shaped condition for a long time sitting on the shelf. the outer layers of the grain can get brittle and that may cause tear out quite easily. the more curly the wood is, the more important that it be shaped right before shipping, so the outer grain is fresh and a bit supple.

[Mike Brooks]

Hard is what you want. Working one of the harder pieces of English I have ever worked right now, very pleased with the results. I really dislike working soft curly maple, don't care how much curl it has it just doesn't make as nice of gun as a hard piece does.

[saltland]

 For my own education...how do cherry,peach among others compare to walnut which seems to be the most popular?
 Scott

[ron w]

hard yes, brittle no.....freshly cut curly maple will be hard but the grain structure will be somewhat supple and not as prone to tearing out compared to the same piece of wood that has sat around for while or stored up in the rafters where it gets really warm.  good soft maple, (big leaf, red, etc) isn't all that much softer than sugar maple, if it's good stuff. both were and are used interchangeably for stock work, and both work nicely with sharp tools. usually more figure will be found in the various species of soft maple. especially when you get into figures like quilted maple, lace figured maple bird's eye and spaulted.

[WadePatton]

In selecting a kit to build many offer the option of curly,extra curly or fancy ,extra fancy/curly,extra curl maple.Obviously an upgrade is at an increased cost.Would you guys explain the differences and possibly post some pics showing the differences.Does it affect how the wood is worked/finished?
Thanks,
   Scott

If it was me I'd pick something in the middle -- not too plain and not too fancy this way you will know how to proceed when you build another (and you will). I leave the very very fancy extra curly wood to the "experts" it is way over my budget or my customers budget.

Sharpness rules, and curl/figure can complicate your building process.  A moderate amount of curl will impress and amaze your family and friends-because just look at their wooden-stocked guns if they have any.  Every non-ALR person who has seen my sorta plain, sorta fancy first gun raves on the wood. It was a 150-dollar blank to give you an idea.

I would not recommend Ash for a beginner, stick with Maple (and request high-density along with moderate curl).  My current stock of Ash is wearing on my nerves.  Spend the extra on a diamond plate or some other necessary tools.

For anyone who needs such: BRILLIANT and simple sharpening instructions are given by Paul Sellers on Youtube. He's a fine-furniture maker/master who uses hand-tools for nearly everything. 

[Mike Brooks]

hard yes, brittle no.....freshly cut curly maple will be hard but the grain structure will be somewhat supple and not as prone to tearing out compared to the same piece of wood that has sat around for while or stored up in the rafters where it gets really warm.  good soft maple, (big leaf, red, etc) isn't all that much softer than sugar maple, if it's good stuff. both were and are used interchangeably for stock work, and both work nicely with sharp tools. usually more figure will be found in the various species of soft maple. especially when you get into figures like quilted maple, lace figured maple bird's eye and spaulted.

I've used alot of good hard red maple that worked really well. None of it compares to good sugar maple, either plain or heavily figured. Incredible curl can be found in sugar maple, it is more rare and you'll pay accordingly. Sugar maple always gives you a better finish in the end as well, it doesn't fuzz up and holds carving far better than soft maple. Ask some of the folks here that build the really high end guns.
 You don't want to use anything that is "freshly cut"(Not sure what you mean here). I have always found the longer a stock blank sets once it properly dries makes little to no difference in the quality of wood. Spaulted maple, if I recall, is caused by a bacteria (fungus?) that is attacking the deteriorating wood. It's always soft, too soft to build good decorated  guns out of.

[Paddlefoot]

I agree with everyone who has said the sharpness of your tools is the deciding factor. If you really know how to put an edge on, you probably already have some experience in working wood. Pick the figure you want. If you are not confident with the edge you are getting spend the extra money on your sharpening system. Once you have the gun built you will either want to build another or you will know it's not for you. A well crafted plain gun will always give you a better sense of accomplishment that one that's hacked out with filler and corrections all over it.  JMHO
Check out YouTube "Scary Sharp" set ups and you'll have a pretty good start on getting the edge you need.  "Tools For Working Wood" or Japanwoodworker.com for the mylar backed abrasive paper to use with the system.