Author Topic: barrel flats  (Read 4687 times)

Walks with Fire

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barrel flats
« on: February 12, 2017, 02:51:31 PM »
I purchased a 42" .54 15/16" straight barrel and it bows in the middle when set on a flat surface. Is this normal for a barrel blank? I only have calipers to check the thickness of the flats right now but it does vary as much as .020 towards the middle and it's bigger on both ends. It doesn't look bent but the grinding of the flats is not consistent. Is this normal for a barrel blank?

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2017, 03:16:15 PM »
I purchased a 42" .54 15/16" straight barrel and it bows in the middle when set on a flat surface. Is this normal for a barrel blank? I only have calipers to check the thickness of the flats right now but it does vary as much as .020 towards the middle and it's bigger on both ends. It doesn't look bent but the grinding of the flats is not consistent. Is this normal for a barrel blank?

That barrel might have been milled,ground or planed between centers and got hot and then
bowed in the middle which would account for the .020 variation. WHO made it and what is it
made from. What is the flat surface used that is 42" long or more.?

Bob Roller

Walks with Fire

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2017, 03:29:13 PM »
The barrel is a Green mountain blank and I am checking it only on a kitchen counter top at the moment. I do have access to a large surface plate at work and will look at it closer at work tomorrow. I am not sure how the barrel is produced as in if it is rifled then the flats ground. I am not sure how to proceed if it doesn't fit flat.

Should I draw file it on all the flats until it fits flat to the surface plate? This my first barrel blank project to make a drop in barrel for a Lyman stock. How close should it be coming from the manufacturer? I don't know if I am dealing with a bad barrel or not. I am not sure of the steel as I have seen some that say 1137 and others 1411 and the Green Mountain website doesn't say.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 03:36:16 PM by Walks with Fire »

Offline porchdog48

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2017, 03:34:43 PM »
I had a Green Mountain that had the same problem on all flats. I just draw filed it flat. Nice thing was when the low area disappears your done.
Dave
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 03:39:10 PM by porchdog48 »

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2017, 03:39:15 PM »
The barrel is a Green mountain blank and I am checking it only on a kitchen counter top at the moment. I do have access to a large surface plate at work and will look at it closer at work tomorrow. I am not sure how the barrel is produced as in if it is rifled then the flats ground. I am not sure how to proceed if it doesn't fit flat.

Should I draw file it on all the flats until it fits flat to the surface plate? This my first barrel blank project to make a drop in barrel for a Lyman stock. How close should it be coming from the manufacturer? I don't know if I am dealing with a bad barrel or not.

Check all 8 flats on the surface plate and see if this variance is consistent. If it's 15/16 across the flats (.9375) it should
work as a drop in on a machine inlet stock. Green Mountain uses a material called 1137 modified for gun barrels. It is
not for high velocity center fire guns but is much better than 12L14 for muzzle loaders.

Bob Roller

Offline Joe S.

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 04:24:13 PM »
just wondering and may be a stupid question but is it 15/16 ths. in the thin part?

Offline kutter

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2017, 05:29:13 PM »
I take it the bbl is not bent,,that's what I think of when some one says it's 'bowed'.,,,but rather swamped in the center portion about .010" on a side. Making the ATF measurement in the center about the .020" less than the full 15/16" the bbl is supposed to be.
That leaves the ends of the bbl standing on your surface plate counter top while you see light under the middle portion.

If that is what is happening on every flat as you rotate it around on your counter top,,then you don't have the 15/16 ATF bbl you ordered. It is swamped in the middle  and not on purpose.

Return it to the mfg/supplier if you can. If bought second hand, you can file one or both ends to either attain a  straight or a straight taper form. Or leave it as is as a 'swamped bbl' adding to that style it if needed.

You should be able to see any such swamp to the center by simply sighting down the flats or the corners of the flats from either end.


Unless I'm all confused this morning,,that's what I read.

ron w

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2017, 05:55:43 PM »
I am wondering, if by "bowed" you're saying that when you set the barrel on the flat that shows a space between the barrel and the flat surface, when the opposite is placed on the flat surface, it shows that the barrel will rock somewhere in the middle of it's length, or if it shows the same void between the flat and the surface. it might be that you have a swamped profile barrel. check all eight sides to see if it might be swamped. you might have gotten a swamped barrel by mistake.
 another possibility is that the barrel has been straightened. this process is done by looking at shadows in the bore and bending the blank after it is bored, so that regardless of what the outside shows, the bore inside the blank, is straight. if the bow isn't all that noticeable by just holding out and looking at it, you might try indexing the bow in the vertical plane when you set the barrel in the stock.  this isn't necessarily "correct", because there should be no bow, but if the barrel can't be replaced for some reason, it is a remedy, given the bore is straight in it's currently bowed condition.  that said, I would first contact Green Mountain and tell them you'd like to return that barrel. and of course, as Kutter said, you can always file the barrel to produce a tapered barrel that compensates for the bow. don't forget to file the central area of the barrel opposite the end you file to make the barrel have straight taper. I would also not trust the counter top to be absolutely straight. I spent my working career fabricating counter tops and installing them, and I can tell you assuredly, there are very few, if any,.... that are actually dead straight.

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2017, 06:26:43 PM »
The barrel is a Green mountain blank and I am checking it only on a kitchen counter top at the moment. I do have access to a large surface plate at work and will look at it closer at work tomorrow. I am not sure how the barrel is produced as in if it is rifled then the flats ground. I am not sure how to proceed if it doesn't fit flat.

Should I draw file it on all the flats until it fits flat to the surface plate? This my first barrel blank project to make a drop in barrel for a Lyman stock. How close should it be coming from the manufacturer? I don't know if I am dealing with a bad barrel or not. I am not sure of the steel as I have seen some that say 1137 and others 1411 and the Green Mountain website doesn't say.
If you have access to that surface plate you mention why don't you first check it on the surface plate and THEN tell us there is a issue with the barrel. Your "kitchen table" MAYBE the problem -- just saying.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2017, 07:34:34 PM »
 Why not just check it with a straight edge? Put the barrel in a vice to hold it an check. Ok going back under my rock. Mike

Walks with Fire

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2017, 08:29:04 PM »
I will check it on a surface plate to be sure but other barrels I have do not show any bow in them. Going ATF on the breech end I get .938,.931,.935 and the same on the muzzle end on the same ATF but in the waist area I get .940,.931,.935 with calipers. All my machining tools are at work. I work as a production Aerospace parts machinist. It doesn't appear to have horrible run-out in the bore but the semmetry from the grinding seems very poor. It is swamped but it's not a swamped barrel.

Offline Tom Cooper

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 08:53:36 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something but your numbers do not seem to be that far out of alignment with each other, but I'm not a rocket scientist either.
Tom

The best way I know of to ruin a perfectly plain longrifle is to carve and engrave it

Offline okawbow

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2017, 08:55:40 PM »
I wouldn't worry about a few thousands variation. Draw file the barrel until it fits the stock properly and you're done.
As in life; it’s the journey, not the destination. How you get there matters most.

Walks with Fire

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 02:19:56 AM »
You guys were all right and I feel like an idiot. The flats are parallel to each other. They mic the dimensions I stated but they are parallel and it's not bent. I guess I just expected a much closer tolerance but this is normal.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 11:46:19 PM »
When building primitive guns, it's probably best to forget the aerospace tolerances.
Just sayin.
In His grip,

Dane

Walks with Fire

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 02:21:30 AM »
Yeah; your right but it is tough when that's what your exposed to every day. Like anything else you learn as you go. I bet the bore is held pretty tight though. I just enjoy working with precision but in BP rifles I guess it doesn't matter much. It will still be a fun project and I guess this is as good as it gets. The other GM barrels I have shoot very well but I never really thought about how close the tolerance was.

When your used to cutting true positions, bores, profiles to several datum and holding to +/- .0005 or less sometimes then get this in your hands it does set you back a little. I apologize for my ignorance and rant. I thought I had junk and here I have top notch.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 02:24:21 AM by Walks with Fire »

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2017, 02:49:31 AM »
   Walks with fire. It won't be the first an it won't be the last. I have asked a lot of bonehead questions. That's how we learn.    Mike

Steve-In

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Re: barrel flats
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2017, 08:20:57 PM »
I have seen the GM barrels that had flats that were not flat.  Most are consistent from one end to the other and the bore was centered well.