Kit Carson Nose Cap

[Herb]

I am building a Kit Carson Hawken with a tapered barrel, 1 1/8" to 1", 31 1/2" long.  The nose cap comes at 13 1/2" ahead of the snail.  The barrel width there is 1.080, call it 1 1/16".  I use a Muzzleloader Builders Supply Hawken nose cap because they are the correct length, about .835".  Track has a 1 1/16 cast nose cap but it is only 1/2" long.  The Bridger rifle has a 1 1/8" straight barrel, so MBS's nose cap is correct.  But it is too big for the tapered barrel.  They have a 1" cast cap, and I have filed that out to fit a tapered barrel, but that is not right.  It has a web .265" high for the rod, and the underrib is .225 high, so I file it down to fit.  But my MBS 1 1/8 cap had a web of only .165, lower than the rib.  So I had to saw out a piece of steel .060 thick and solder it into the end of the cap to raise it to the level of the rib. Does anyone know of a correct cast nose cap for this size?   Are there any other Hawken builders with tapered barrels, and if so, how do you fit the nose cap?

[Don Stith]

Herb
 My nose cap is .835 long with a .230 web and 1.110 barrel width. You can squeeze it in a vise to get a little closer to your 1.080
 . If that will work, I'll send you one
  Your barrel is a little more tapered than the original which is 1 1/8 t0 1 1/16 in the 31 -1/8 length
Don
 I cannot find my complete file on the Carson, but am sending you a CD of photos and some sketches to help you in shaping the lock side of the butt stock.  That is an area that is troublesome to get right from photographs

[rsells]

When I use a tapered barrel, I use a nose cap designed for an 1 1/8 straight.  I take a hack saw and grind the edges to make the sides parallel.  This makes the cut a bit thinner.  I then cut a slot running from the flat that rest against the bottom flat of the barrel down toward the ram rod grove.  I stop my cut where the casting on the inside of the cap turns to form the ram rod grove.  Then, I put the nose cap in my vice and pinch the sides toward each other until it is slightly smaller than the barrel width.  I end up having to reshape the side and angled flats of the barrel grove area of the nose cap.  Once the profile of the cap is shaped to fit the barrel correctly, I use Stay Bright low heat silver solder and fill the remaining gap I cut in the front of the nose cap, and take files and clean up the excess solder.  This joint doesn't show because of the under rib butting against it when the barrel is installed.  This procedure is not as bad as it sounds.  I got a nose cap that was designed for an 1 1/16 barrel and tried to use it.  I wasn't satisfied with it and threw it away and went back to this procedure.  I hope I haven't confused you.  Good luck with your build.
                                                                                                                                                                                          Roger Sells

[Herb]

Here is where I am now.  I am still shaping the lock panel and will file down the lock bolster in front of the snail to match the stock.  Still working on the "scalloped" areas between the trigger plate and bottom of the back of the lock panels.


A closer  view of the lock panels.  I made my own escutcheons and filed down the key heads (TOW's Key-36-I). Track's escutcheon to the right.  Track's Kit Carson rear sight is the correct size and shape, but I may make a taller one so I can have a taller front sight.


Don that is generous of you, and I'd like your nose cap.  Mine will work fine, but I may have to build a .62 GRRW barrel into a caplock Hawken for a buffalo hunter, if he draws a permit, and won't have much time to do it.  Anyone else building Hawkens, I think the last thing you should do is try to build them from a blank, unless you have considerable experience.  I have no more plans to do that.  The old German said "ve gets too soon oldt und too late schmart", but I am both, and I hope I have got smart enough  to quit stick building.  If you want to build a Hawken, parts sets are available and will make a generic Hawken, with a lot of trouble if you get a 1 1/8"  tang from Track, which does not even match their own stock wrist.  The 1" size is better, but I think I had to reshape that one to their "Kit Carson Hawken" stock.  So for Don Stith to offer correct parts to make a copy of original rifles is much to be praised.  If I have to build another and can use his parts set, I will be very happy to use it.

Roger, your solution is a good one, I like it.  What cast cap do you start with, and is the web as high as the underrib?

[Don Stith]

Just to point out one of the problems with building from pictures.  The photo of the original you worked from shows a little of the under side of the toe. Therefore the toe "line" is not quite accurately depicted.
 I know everyone can't have originals to handle but it is a big help in getting contours and transitions.
Don

[Scota4570]

The originals were not cast from steel?  Cast iron? 

Did they fabricate them from sheet stock?  I have a Hershel House video where he makes one from sheet steel.    Is the the historically correct way to do it?

[Herb]

Got the nose cap Don, Thanks.  I like it.

[Darkhorse]

I would have thought they were cast on the stock from pewter. I cast a pewter nose cap on a long rifle some years back and it turned out so good I would do it again. It just seems like the thing to do on a Hawken.

[Don Stith]

The originals were not cast from steel?  Cast iron? 

Did they fabricate them from sheet stock?  I have a Hershel House video where he makes one from sheet steel.    Is the the historically correct way to do it?

Lots of different Hawkens made over the 30 or so years they were in business. Some simple hunting rifles, some half stock plains rifles, some fullstocks,some small bore local guns. who knows what all came out of the shop.  Some were iron mounted, some brass and I had a J&S halfstock with german silver nose cap and entry thimble and the other parts were iron.  Original owners Family documents  claim it was bought in 1838

 Typical plains rifle with iron furniture used sheet iron/steel on the earlier guns and iron/steel castings on later guns. That applies to buttplates as well as nosecaps. late local  guns used pewter for nose caps and brass or iron castings for other furniture
 Every one confused now?

[Scota4570]

What was used on the original Kit Carson rifle?

[Don Stith]

Could not take it off for inspection but it appears to be a casting the same as  on the one I own from the same time period