Author Topic: Most used original finishes?  (Read 3733 times)

Offline Scota4570

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Most used original finishes?
« on: March 12, 2017, 07:08:54 AM »
I am working on a Southern long rifle right now.  A Kibler kit.  What were likely the original finishes on an original rifle of this type?

Wood, aqua fortis, dye stains, linseed, then wax.

Barrel-browned?
Trigger guard, pipes, butplate-browned?
Lock-bright? 
Screws-heated then quenched in oil?

I'm thinking of heating the furniture in a charcoal fire then quenching in vegetable oil.   Maybe even to lock plate and cock too.  The quench is done at less then red heat.  It tends to come out  a gray-back, depending on alloy. 

Is that wildly inappropriate? 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 07:10:28 AM by Scota4570 »

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2017, 10:46:23 PM »
In one of my books, Bivens I think, it shows an ad for a North Carolina gunmaker back in the late 1700's.

In the ad he advertises bluing and browning.  That settled in my mind the question of "which is correct?"   Both, I guess depending on where you are. 

Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 12:12:13 AM »
The article below is  actual history.  John Brush learned his trade in England as you will read below.
 The Bluing and Browning in England was what we call Fire bluing today. Back then it was called charcoal bluing simply because it was done over a charcoal brazer. You will find engravings illustrating this in the Diderot encyclopedia of trades and industries from back then. The browning done was as was done in England also because it is where John Brush learned his trade. I taught a class  on this at last years Oregon gunmakers fair for Ron Scott.

A Gun Building Tradition: Gun
building in Williamsburg began
with John Brush who arrived from
London in 1717. He was a master in
the Gun Makers’ Guild in England.
James Geddy Sr. established his
shop prior to 1736. His sons, William
and David, carried on the business
after their father died in 1744. In
1750, six years after her husband’s
death, Anne Geddy sold the east lot,
forcing her sons to relinquish the
workroom on the property to its new
owner. Subsequently, the brothers
built a workroom on the west side of
the foundry.
The Geddy brothers advertised
in the Virginia Gazette on August
8, 1751 they were carrying on the
“Gunsmith’s, Cutler’s and Founder’s
trade, to include Gun Work, such
as Guns and pistols, Stocks plain
or neatly varnished, Locks and
Mountings, Barrels blued, bored

and rifled.” This advertisement
indicates that David and William
Geddy were partners, continuing
their father’s trades of gunsmithing
and brass casting. After 1760, when
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 02:53:47 AM by jerrywh »
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 01:06:45 AM »
I'm guessing a Kibler kit is a late flint rifle 1820-1840. I would go with a browned finish on the iron parts, dark AQF stain, and your favorite rubbed in finish.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 01:24:09 AM »
I agree with Rich on the AF and I don't think there is a problem with a browned finish but I tend to think most SMR locks were left to age naturally. Many originals seem to have had the rest of the gun left to brown naturally. Remember I am talking about Mountain rifles only.
Dennis
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Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 01:52:54 AM »
Jerry, bluing was indeed a heat process, but browning, or blacking as it was sometimes referred too, was a chemical process. Somewhere around this house I have an extract from old English armory records that an old friend sent me when he was researching this subject in England back in the early 80s. It is the formula that was used for such, and it's the same process as rust bluing. Bluing was preferred for civil usage due to nicer looking results, while browning or blacking were used for martial usage as the results were not as nice looking in comparison. Eventually rust bluing became standard due to wear issues on "for the trade" firearms until hot blues were perfected.
Psalms 144

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 03:03:47 AM »
 Clark. I agree with you about the Browning and blackening. However I believe the blackening refered to was what we today call rust bluing.  Just my opinion. Seems logical. Since they browned it was likely they rust blued because the two are related.  I also agree with Dennis. Most original rifles of that type were just left to rust naturally.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 02:40:26 AM »
Jerry, browning and blacking were indeed used for the same process. We know how the English preferred blackened arms by the time the flint era was ending, Makes lots of sense that the names got used interchangeably since it was the same process and chemicals used, just add boiling water. I need to go find that message and put out the particulars. I agree that most on this side of the pond were left in the white unless requested otherwise, at least through the early 1800s anyway.
Psalms 144

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 06:05:10 AM »
I am working on a Southern long rifle right now.  A Kibler kit.  What were likely the original finishes on an original rifle of this type?

Wood, aqua fortis, dye stains, linseed, then wax.

Barrel-browned?
Trigger guard, pipes, butplate-browned?
Lock-bright? 
Screws-heated then quenched in oil?

I'm thinking of heating the furniture in a charcoal fire then quenching in vegetable oil.   Maybe even to lock plate and cock too.  The quench is done at less then red heat.  It tends to come out  a gray-back, depending on alloy. 

Is that wildly inappropriate?
The stain was generally Ferric Nitrate for Maple. The finish may have been many things but a brown, "fat" linseed oil varnish was pretty common. The adding of some  resins prevents or greatly reduces water spotting and the stock turning white if used in rain or snow. Artists linseed oil, the colorless stuff for mixing pigments was not used. No way to make varnish without darkening it so it was expensive and if heated it looked and functioned just like the brown stuff so...

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Most used original finishes?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 06:08:15 AM »
I would caseharden the lock plate and cock and the screws, at least the heads.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine