hawken full stock

[snapper]

https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/full-stock-percussion-sporting-rifle-by-j-s-hawken-st-louis-895333

I would be interested in the comments regarding this rifle from the guys that are familiar with hawkens.

Thanks

Fleener

[Bob Roller]

https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/full-stock-percussion-sporting-rifle-by-j-s-hawken-st-louis-895333

I would be interested in the comments regarding this rifle from the guys that are familiar with hawkens.

Thanks

Fleener

Art,
I wonder if they pulled the barrel out of the wood to make sure it doesn't say T.K.Dawson,Williamsport Ind
with a gun #.The wood looks much better than the lock and Dawson turned out this class of work INCLUDING
the Hawken name stamp.How far back can the provenence be traced??

Bob Roller

[smokinbuck]

Besides the condition of the wood verses the metal, the J&S Hawken stamp is very different from the St Louis stamp.  I have to go with Bob on this one.
Mark

[Hungry Horse]

The barrel stampings show little wear, as does the metal in general. I see a lot of recent rust, and little or no convincing patina. I would be inclined to believe this is a modern made reproduction.

  Hungry Horse

[rich pierce]

It's an odd duck sharing some characteristics with Hawken rifles made for the local St. Louis trade.

[oldtravler61]

  After looking at the Hawken did anyone check out the Tennessee rifle? Maybe my eyes are foggy but the lock looks quite similar to a small Siler. You can tell me I'm crazy.   Mike

[mark brier]

I have talked with Bob Woodfill who studied alot under my grandfather. He and I both agree that this is 100% not a T.K Dawson rifle. Probably not even a true Hawken in my opinion, alot of wrong characteristics for a Hawken.

Mark Brier

[FALout]

I just did a quick look, but does this auction usually only have overall pics and no close ups?  The metal finish screams recent build.

[Mike L]

There are close ups and if you click on the pictures they blow up larger yet.

[FALout]

I did look at those pics, but it would have been nice to see other areas of the rifle.  The wood does look older then most of the metal.  It's not often on the old rifles I've seen, that the screw for the hammer is in perfect condition, the slot is unmarred.

[Scota4570]

Is the polygonal rifleing with notches in the corner correct?

[oakridge]

Including buyer's premium, it sold for $13,800. Since Cowan's calls it a genuine Hawken, I assume that Flayderman thought so, too. But I wouldn't want it for that price. Too many questions.

[g2608671@verizon.net]

I used to be in the antique furniture business many years ago but not antique rifles.  Do the rust / discoloration splotches on the metal in any way show transfer of oxidation to the wood at these specif points?  The edges of the metal flats look almost pristine in sharpness and are without any dings or wear - that I can see form the pic. In fact, I can not see any deformation or wear on the edges of the metal at all, which is unusual on anything that has age.  But - I can not see real closely so I am just commenting on what I can see. lastly, are there any signs in the wood of normal wear or perhaps some damage from insects that matches with where metal and wood meet?
Not being an alarmist here but it looks a bit too crisp. 

[rich pierce]

It's worth what someone will pay for it. Good to see some nice guns selling with competitive bidding.

[Don Stith]

Any idea who bought it?

[Herb]

Scota4570- Hawken muzzles frequently had the grooves filed deeper and the lands relieved some.  Here is the Bridger Hawken, and the Kit Carson looks the same.
URL=https://smg.photobucket.com/user/HerbGLT/media/BridgerMuzzle_zpsf8uk71tx.jpg.html][/URL]
If you look at the muzzle of the rifle in this discussion, it looks to be "coned" about 1/4" (it shows on the lands) and the grooves filed deeper.  Some muzzles of Hawkens in Jim Gordon's book "Great Gunmakers for the Early American West" show no rifling at all.

[Dphariss]

I suspect this is a spurious marking or it repaired at the Hawken shop and then marked. The J&S may be a little suspicious too since the rifle could date to much later than Jake's death.
The heavy FS converted from flint rifle that Harold Fuller had falls into the same group. Its POSSIBLE, perhaps even likely that it was in the shop, was recut or such and got marked. I figure the Fuller rifle was converted to percussion and then marked. But there are Hawken stamps out there....
This rifle looks WAY too much like a New England rifle to me.

Dan