Flint hook breech

[FALout]

I've often considered a flint Hawken with a hooked breech and was wondering about lock position.  Would the lock need to be positioned forward so the touch hole is in front of the threads of the breech or what?  It's been awhile since I've handled breech plug like this, but do remember a recessed powder chamber at the threaded section, any thoughts out there on this subject?

[Herb]

I built a Track of Wolf flint Hawken, got the parts from another builder cheap enough.  Lots of trouble with that Hawken hooked breech and tang, as track calls it.  The solid tang is one inch long and the flash hole is drilled at the back end of the powder chamber, nearly an inch from the end of the bore. Track says the chamber is .285 in diameter.  There is a shelf at the front of the threads, and powder bridges there.  I almost could not make Swiss 1 1/2F fire in that rifle, and other powders gave a lot of flashes in the pan.  The only way to make it work reliably is to bore that chamber out to about 7/16 (.437) and radius the end of the plug at the end of the bore.  Track says this can be done safely.  But the plug adds about an inch to your barrel length and maybe several ounces of weight.  My advice is do not use a flint hooked breech.  By far the best is the Hawken 1" flint breech and tang, TOW #Plug-FHG-16-3.  The black dowel shows the length and size of my drilled out powder chamber.





The drilled out powder chamber made this rifle function reliably.

This is the first flint Hawken I built without the hooked breech.

There are two flint hooked breeches, straight face and slant face.  I think mine (this one) had the slant face and the chamber is listed as .375, but it really was about .360.  But that is not big enough.

[Herb]

Here are twp Hawkens built with a flint plug.  The one on the left is mine, a .58, and the other is Neill Fields.

I think his serial number is 314.  Mine might be 14, I can't remember.  I don't know what kind of plug he used.  Mine wasPlug-FHG-16-3 by Track.

[FALout]

Thanks Herb, I was hoping you would respond.  Your pics really help with laying out things.  I will take your advise on which breech plug to use, last thing I want is bad ignition after all the work to build and then have basically a wall hanger.

[varsity07840]

I've had bridging problems with the the same style breech on my flint hawken. I pulled the breech plug and chamfered the chamber
mouth. That helped quite a bit, but it needs a little more grinding to eliminate the "shelf" where the powder hangs up.

[Herb]

Neill used Track's Hawken Flint Beavertail Tang, Plug- BT-16-3, which is solid and does not unhook.  The one I used does unhook, and Neill recommends it also.  Track told me  their stock in their fullstock Hawken kit, EHF-16-M1, would not work with the Flint Breech and Tang #Plug-FHG-16-3 because of inletting.  I think because the tang is narrower on this plug than on the "Flint Hooked Breech #Plug-LRF-16-3" they use.  But there is an easy solution.  Get their J&S Hawken fullstock, not inlet for lock, #Stk-HF-16-M1 (or M3), 1" barrel, 7/16 rod hole drilled, for barrel to 37" long.  It is also not inlet for tang, trigger or buttplate, which is what you need.  If this is what you want, call Track and discuss this with them to be sure it works as I have said.  The last thing you want to do is build this from a blank.  I have done half a dozen or more this way and gotten a few years older doing it.

Track says of their Hawken Pistol Flint Hooked Breech "Drilled for a powder chamber, you may enlarge this cavity, but it must remain smaller than the bore diameter, to prevent entry of a cleaning jag and patch, which might become stuck."

[rich pierce]

It's possible to take a standard flint fixed breechplug and cut and file the tang area to fit a hooked breech standing tang.  As opposed to the whole octagonal hooked breech breechplug that requires a counterbore in the face. That would be my first choice for a flintlock Hawken.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The Smithsonian Hawken which was originally a flint lock converted later in its life to percussion, has a patent hooked breech plug and standing breech tang.  This is the only original Hawken rifle from which we can draw any clues, but I suspect that many earlier J & S Hawken rifles had flint type tangs - no hook or patent breech.  Don Stith's parts set, which makes into a superlative Hawken copy by the way, could be built either way...I chose to use a flint breech and tang for the one I made.  I've included a picture of it here.  But I've also built flint Hawken rifles with Track's patent hook breech, and it sure makes cleaning easier.  They can be fitted up tightly, the powder chamber bored out, polished and champhered as Herb has done, and they make into a rifle with great accuracy and reliability potential.  I include a picture of one done that way, similar to Herb's nice work.  This L & R "Ashmore" lock is extremely fast and reliable, although the ones I have recently used have required some special tuning for best function.
If I had another to build, and I do, I'd use the patent hooked breech without hesitation, primarily for its ease of disassembly and cleaning.  It certainly takes nothing away from the aesthetics of the arm, and is HC.






ebay photo hosting

[FALout]

Thanks guys, I'm just in the planning stage.  So many things to consider, caliber, lock,....good info.
Thanks, Bob

[Steve-In]

I made a patent breech to make a chunk gun barrel a little longer. 
I turned the threads and drilled it out about 1-1/8" deep by 3/8 diameter.  After I shaped and inlet it and had the touch hole drilled I disassembled it.  I then used a 3/8 ball mill to go to the bottom of the touch hole.  I had a taper dowel reamer and opened the chamber up.  I finished the face up by using a corner rounding mill to the bore diameter.
I never had a bit of trouble with that breech.  I used 2f Goex and to the best of my knowledge it never bridged.  Clean up was easy as I used a couple of patches on a corkscrew to get to the bottom.  It would have been easy to make a hook breech out of it.  My boss did not care as long as I did the work on my own time.