Carpet beetle control? Question for Osprey and others

[Joe Stein]

Well, I've been researching mosquito and tick repellents and control methods for a couple of upcoming camping trips.  One of the chemicals used is Permethrin.  Googling Permethrin, I found that it can also be used to control/kill carpet beetles.  It is often used in mosquito and tick control by spraying it on clothing.  It can be very persistent, retaining its effectiveness through several washings. 
I got to wondering if spraying powder horns with permethrin would be effective in keeping carpet beetles from eating our powder horns.  Also, would permethrin damage the horn surface? 
I'm about a hundred miles from my horns right now, or I'd try it on a scrap of horn.  Anybody know anything about this?
Osprey, I know you deal with mosquito control.  Do you have any experience with permethrin?

[Rick Sheets]

This is interesting. I hope to hear what folks have to say.

ONE THING I would mention is to be careful what you put on a horn that has not been worked yet. Meaning, who knows what could be inhaled/ingested when turning, scraping or sanding horn; horn by itself is bad enough- airborne chemicals can't be good for you. Horn dust seems to get everywhere as you know.

Rick

[JCKelly]

Some 19th century guys used copper acetate to turn their horns green. Bugs who eat copper do not do well.

[hanshi]

While I've never thought to spray permethrin on a horn, I have used it successfully on antlers, deer mounts and mounted small game.  It's also used on my hunting clothes with the result of ZERO ticks.  Any exposed skin is rubbed with DEET.

A couple of years ago I ordered a large bottle of concentrated permethrin solution.  Just an ounce or so poured in a bottle of water makes a solution about twice the strength of expensive aerosol cans.  That bottle of concentrate was rather inexpensive and will, no doubt, last me for the duration.  I believe, IIRC, I found it by going first to Amazon.

[Joe Stein]

Good point, Rick Sheets: "ONE THING I would mention is to be careful what you put on a horn that has not been worked yet. Meaning, who knows what could be inhaled/ingested when turning, scraping or sanding horn; horn by itself is bad enough- airborne chemicals can't be good for you. Horn dust seems to get everywhere as you know. "

[BOB HILL]

Have any of you tried diatomaceous earth on your horns while in storage. Seems to me a safe thing to use. Just wash off before working the horn. Not harmful if eaten by you, but breathing this fine dust is not good. Google it. Can be bought at many feed stores, interesting stuff. Probably can get at health food stores in smaller amounts. ...........Bob

[WadePatton]

While I've never thought to spray permethrin on a horn, I have used it successfully on antlers, deer mounts and mounted small game.  It's also used on my hunting clothes with the result of ZERO ticks.  Any exposed skin is rubbed with DEET.

A couple of years ago I ordered a large bottle of concentrated permethrin solution.  Just an ounce or so poured in a bottle of water makes a solution about twice the strength of expensive aerosol cans.  That bottle of concentrate was rather inexpensive and will, no doubt, last me for the duration.  I believe, IIRC, I found it by going first to Amazon.

Permathrin is absolutely essential for land surveyors who prefer 100's of bites over the 1000's of bites we get each year from ticks.  I'm sure it'd be GREAT for horns and such. 

DO NOT GET on your skin.  It's powerful stuff and doesn't wash off.  Tick-borne diseases like Lyme's and RMSF are to be avoided at all costs, despite historicality.  I've had the RMSF already. And am "retiring" from land surveying. Time to work indoors-and with a passion...

Also I've found DE (diatomaceous earth) to be about useless.  Especially for animal parasite control. Have fooled with it off/on for years.  Just don't see much benefit.  Maybe others have.

[hanshi]

Wade is absolutely correct concerning Permethrin.  Don't spray it on your skin or inhale the fumes; DEET is rather safe on adult skin.  Make sure sprayed clothing is thoroughly dry before wearing.  Permethrin is persistent; it will last through several washings and dryings. 

[JBJ]

Like Wade, I have been around this stuff for a long time and it makes a big difference in tick and chigger attacks when used as per label. When these synthetic pyrethroids first came out, word  was that they were effective for a prolonged period because they bound tightly to organic materials and were not readily dissolved in water (hence, they would last through multiple washing of treated clothes). I think the information presented at this site will help provide some answers http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/PermGen.html.

J.B. 

[Joe Stein]

I know that the U.S. Military are currently treating their uniforms with permethrin before issue.  It has a good reputation for what it does.  I just have no experience with it yet.  I was wondering if it would adversely effect the horn.  I would guess it would not damage the material, but might ruin any finish or dye, just don't know.

Wade, unfortunately permethrin wasn't around until after I got out of land surveying.  Had to make do with DEET.

[PPatch]

"I know that the U.S. Military are currently treating their uniforms with permethrin before issue."

Doesn't mean much imo. The military has a terrible track record with chemical sprays - they used to spray DDT heavily on military bases, and sprayed Agent Orange all over southeast asia claiming it was harmless. Who knows what long term problems permethrin might show in time.

dave

[hanshi]

You're correct about the Government's track record.  My best friend died a few years ago from exposure to agent orange; and all he did was to service planes.  He was a body builder but became diabetic due to the exposure.  The VA put him on 100% disability.  One thing lead to another and he had to have open heart surgery.  His death was ruled to be from a heart attack.  I loved this guy.

[Joe Stein]

I agree about the Govt. track record with chemicals. I have friends who are suffering from exposure to Agent Orange, as well as ones who have died from it.  Mostly threw that out fishing for any info about what it does long term to the material it is used on.

[thecapgunkid]

I checked out JBJ's website because this has been on my mind due to the trail walk passion.

What are some of the product names containing the stuff so I can go look be3fore going into the woods next time?

Thanks

Capgun

[Clark Badgett]

Permethrin is wonderful stuff. We used to be issued cans of the stuff to spray down our uniforms with. The last few years before I retired it was almost impossible to get through our supply channels. I guess they thought our training wasn't miserable enough so they made it more so. To illustrate how effect it was, my first 15 years I can count the number of ticks bites on my 10 fingers, the last 5 when it was hand to find, I was pulling 20-30 ticks off my skin every day. Deet doesn't phase military issue ticks.

[David R. Pennington]

I did an event last August, spent a week in HC camp. The whole time in period clothes, bathed daily in a pond. Walked a lot barefoot through the fields. Had a great time. Got to experince chiggers in a very HC manner, worse than I ever have. Still have scars from them.
I never liked chemical repellants but don't want to repeat that. I have been using ginger oil on arthritic joints and seems to help some. I also notice it seems to deter mosquitos somewhat. Surely the natives and frontiersmen had discovered some means to combat these parasites?

[David R. Pennington]

Also what about using horn for food containers, wouldn't want to use horn that was chemically treated?

[Joe Stein]

Also what about using horn for food containers, wouldn't want to use horn that was chemically treated?

David R,  definitely not for food or drink, or a blowing horn.  I would say powder horns only.

Ginger oil for arthriris?  That definitely interests me!

[JBJ]

Capgun
Around my area of the Old North State, Sawyer Products is the easiest to find. It is 0.5% permethrin. They call it Sawyer Premium Insect Repellent for Clothing. Use as directed it works! If there is anyone that chiggers and ticks like more than me, I have yet to meet him/her. It takes weeks and weeks and weeks to get over - it ain't fun!
J.B.

[ltdann]

Permethrin is used as a medication (call Nix) for lice and scabbies.  It's also used as an insecticide in stronger concentrations.  I've worn many uniforms sprayed with permethrin while deployed.  Typically you spray the uniform front and back, allow to dry and it's good for about 25 washes.  Does it work?  You betcha, never had lyme disease, RMSF or malaria.  I like it so much that I spray my hunting clothes with it.

Is it safe?  The World Health Organization has it on their List of Essential Medicines as one the most effective and safe medicines available. 

I'd say that a light spray on your horns with it would definitely keep the critters off.  Spray and let dry.

[T*O*F]

Maybe I'm under some misapprehension, but I understand permethrin has to be ingested to kill bugs, but is not a repellent.  What am I missing?

[ltdann]

Maybe I'm under some misapprehension, but I understand permethrin has to be ingested to kill bugs, but is not a repellent.  What am I missing?

Permerthrin kills ticks(and must bugs) on contact, it's an insecticide.  That's why permethrin is used for clothing and DEET (repellant) for exposed skin.  Mosquitoes can't stand the smell of DEET.

When hunting, I put DEET on the back of the hands and back of neck and that's plenty.  Lasts about 12 hours.