Author Topic: Scary Sharp  (Read 3675 times)

Uncle Alvah

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Scary Sharp
« on: December 27, 2017, 01:54:49 AM »
I am looking for a recommendation on a tutorial or video on the scary sharp system. The couple I have found seem long on talk, short on technique.
 Like this guy.....
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 04:26:27 AM by Uncle Alvah »

retiredle

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 06:29:42 AM »
Uncle Alvah,

Here is a link to a site with what looks like identical wording to what I learned from. I use this technique to sharpen chisels, and it is awesome. I learned before video tutorials were popular, but perhaps watching that video fastforwarding through the talking and just watching technique along with the written tutorial link will help. Back Flattening is the most important part, I think.

Scary sharp tools can make the hardest oak peel away like butter.

Also, remember there is a reason they call it scary sharp, don't ask how I know this  :o


Tommy

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 07:27:33 AM »
About 40 years ago I met a guy that was a jack of all trades, on Saturday mornings I would go to his shop, a small 8x12 shed ad have coffee with him and we would sit there and tell lies to each other and carve on what ever project we each had going.  He sharpened his chisels, all homemade using sandpaper and finally a strop.  As far as I know his system was the predecessor of the Scary Sharp System.  In the winter we sat around his barrel stove he made out of a water heater, throwing chips into the fire, during the summer etc., we sat on the covered porch. 

I thought I knew how to sharpen until he taught me, it was then that I really started to enjoy carving.  I still use the same sheets of glass that he made for me to stick the sandpaper on.  I think the sandpaper today is better than that of 40 years ago, I know the stropping compounds are better today.  I am little more particular about the paper, and I use more grits than most.  Mostly because of habit, and I enjoy the time spent sharpening. 

Offline Bill Raby

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 07:57:35 AM »
I used to sharpen pretty similar to this. But I switched to a set of high quality diamond sharpening stones. Expensive to start out, but so much better. I go to 8000 grit on the sharpening stones, then go to strop. Forget about the stropping compound. Use 14,000 grit diamond powder. Gets it much sharper than any paper. Drawback is that you have to blow some big money on the high end chisels. The cheap ones are just not ever going to get very sharp no matter what you do. When done right the chisels are a joy to use and it does not matter how hard the wood is. But any contact at all with the edge is going to draw blood.

ltdann

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 07:04:48 PM »
I used to sharpen pretty similar to this. But I switched to a set of high quality diamond sharpening stones. Expensive to start out, but so much better. I go to 8000 grit on the sharpening stones, then go to strop. Forget about the stropping compound. Use 14,000 grit diamond powder. Gets it much sharper than any paper. Drawback is that you have to blow some big money on the high end chisels. The cheap ones are just not ever going to get very sharp no matter what you do. When done right the chisels are a joy to use and it does not matter how hard the wood is. But any contact at all with the edge is going to draw blood.

How do you use diamond powder?  on a strop?

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 10:52:21 PM »
I've gotten handy dandy at sharpening over the last few years and here are some of my thoughts on the subject: Hope they help some find a better/faster way to sharpness.

There is only one sharp.  Fully sharp.  Anything else is not sharp and may be due a resharpening-depending on the application. I do gag a bit every time I hear "razor sharp!" because I kinda know what that is (shaved with striaghts now for at least five years-never with any one else's edge, or a new razor. Cutting hair is not the same as shaving a face comfortably, that's all I'm sayin'.

The purpose of the edge/tool should be the biggest influence on the angle and shape of the bevel. Example-Axes use a much wider angle than shaving razors.  But the ultimate sharpness of either is obtained the same way. Make the bevels meet* and then polish them up to the needs of the application.  I've not studied the numbers lately, just isn't necessary.

*There's only one bevel on a chisel/plane iron, etc. Razors are a bit easy, in that the "bevel gauge" is built right in. Chisels and hatchets and knives I sharpen by eye and feel. Took a while to get to this point. I've used lots and lots of gizmos.  Now I use diamond plates mostly, coarse and fine by DMT.

If the grind it right (relief/hollow), the primary bevel will appear even and of equal widths on each side on a double-bevel item.
Then feed the edge into your stone starting below the proper angle (or bevel as is on it), raising the back edge slowly until you feel the edge start biting into the stone.  Back off that angle, and use several strokes, just under it (lowering the back end minutely), then finish with some good strokes into the "bite".  Develop an even burr, then do the other side.   

If you never get a burr, you're not getting fully sharp.  The unsupported steel must curl over the offside, once there is nothing there to support it.  THIS is how you can be sure (blindfolded) that you've gotten the edges to meet. Blades sharpened (and even polished to high mirror luster--don't ask!) can "feel sharp" without ever getting _quite_ to the burr stage, BUT They aren't properly sharp.

Also the method described yields a very slightly convex bevel, which supports the cutting edge nicely-BUT most importantly the shape of the bevel is maintained.  I don't measure anything like that anymore.  I now do it all by feel and sight and performance.

Paul Sellers teaches this in sharpening plane irons, chisels, knives.  He uses a three-stone (diamond plates) setup, but I've only the two right now.  I have a dozen other stones for fine work-but really only use them on shaving razors.  A fine DMT will get me all the keen edge I need for knives and similar. I'll knock off the burr with a ceramic stick if one is handy, with very careful and light strokes otherwise.

Pushing into the stone is a bit tricky with waterstones and sandpaper, but can be managed once you get it.  Diamond plates are fantastic. You can get the same bevels pulling your blade, but the burr will be different and I've not done it that way much. Wet/dry sanding paper over a flat surface like glass or tile or trued steel works for lots of things and everybody has some handy. I generally use a file instead of paper, then to stones. Waterstones are generally reserved for my Japanese cutlery and razors, but many use them for chisels and such.  I'll use high-grit paper or "barber stones" to touch-up and edge at the bench sometimes.

But fine work can be done with a file.  The last time I sharpened another fellow's machete (new guy, surveyor that I was training), that fellow wound up getting three or four stitches later in the day.  He dropped it (and started to catch it).  Bloody mess.  ;D

Paul Sellers probably does a better job of teaching it than I do.  Also GSSixgun is one of my razor gurus. Razors are somewhat different, but you just have to remember that finer angles and finer grits means smaller burrs, but you still have to have a good bevel and get to the point of burring.  There is no sharp otherwise.  Sharpening razors is where I finally put it all together. Paul Sellers came along later (to me) and does as I do. He has videos, I don't.

I can sharpen a sawchain in my sleep too...but that's more about cleaning up the edge and getting the proper angles without so much reliance on burrs.  But then I cut seasoned Osage with aplomb.  8) ;)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 11:06:32 PM by WadePatton »
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Offline Bill Raby

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 06:38:03 AM »
I used to sharpen pretty similar to this. But I switched to a set of high quality diamond sharpening stones. Expensive to start out, but so much better. I go to 8000 grit on the sharpening stones, then go to strop. Forget about the stropping compound. Use 14,000 grit diamond powder. Gets it much sharper than any paper. Drawback is that you have to blow some big money on the high end chisels. The cheap ones are just not ever going to get very sharp no matter what you do. When done right the chisels are a joy to use and it does not matter how hard the wood is. But any contact at all with the edge is going to draw blood.

How do you use diamond powder?  on a strop?

Spray some oil on the strop. Or smear some grease on it. Sprinkle some diamond powder on it and smear it around with your finger. Best to use a new strop instead of one that already has other stuff on it. You have to add diamond pretty often starting out. The diamond powder sinks into the pores. Quits doing that once the pores are all filled up. You want to have a bit of oil on it when you use it. Kind of need just the right amount, but you get the feel for it pretty quick. If the surface of the strop gets smooth and shiny and does not work so good any more, rough it up with some course sand paper and spray on some oil. Metal removed from the chisels will clog it up eventually. Roughing up the surface exposes more diamond. But you will never get away from adding more diamond from time to time.

Don't bother with it if you are using the cheap chisels. Those just will not get very sharp no matter what you do. If you have high quality chisels the diamond strop will make a big difference. Don't bother with anything finer than 14,000 grit. Even the best steel can only get so sharp. Finer grit will make it take longer and will not give you any better results. Those are used for carbide tools and such. Also gemstone and diamond cutting. Kind of neat to sharpen a good ceramic blade to 200,000 grit. That is starting to get into the realm of the high end surgery tools. But you get an edge so fragile that they are useless for pretty much anything other than surgery.

ltdann

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 05:15:31 PM »
I've been using flexcut gold on my Pfiel's and it does a good job.  No idea what grit it is but I kinda of doubt it's 14,000.  Thanks for that, I'll more than likely give it a try.

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Scary Sharp
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 06:46:42 PM »
I am looking for a recommendation on a tutorial or video on the scary sharp system. The couple I have found seem long on talk, short on technique.
...

Paul's videos probably make more sense than my high-intensity ramblings above ::) , so in order to most accurately reply to the OP, I give thee video links.

Mr. Sellers is all about practical technique and practical (fine) craftsmanship. He's a Master proper. Here's a selection of his videos on the subject. The videos are professional made and he's a gem of the youtube. Too few like him. Too many hacks trying to sell views/junk.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paul+sellers+sharpening

There are a dozen or more.  On chisels--how about this one: cheap chisels made GOOD (sharp) as any.  (Some of what he does illustrates concepts mangled in my ramblings above.)






I do the same thing (nearly), but start with antiques and neglected chisels, mostly because I like old metal and fully negotiable pricing and sharp tools. ;)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 07:21:39 PM by WadePatton »
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