Ferric Nitrate ?

[n stephenson]

I have heard various builders talk about Ferric Nitrate. Would some care to elaborate on  use, strength , application, results , where to get , etc.  Any pictures would be welcome. This is a subject that has peaked my interest. Thanks  for your input in advance .  Nate

[smart dog]

Hi,
All of the guns below were stained with ferric nitrate dissolved in water.  A ferric nitrate solution with water is the same as aqua fortis with dissolved iron.  You can buy a container of the powder from the Science Company and mix it with water or alcohol at whatever concentration gives you the results you desire or the wood demands.  My concentrations vary from 4 parts water to 1 part ferric nitrate to 9 parts water and 1 part powder.  It all depends on the wood and your objectives.  It gives the same result as iron dissolved in nitric acid (aqua fortis) but I find it much easier and controllable to use.  You still have to heat the wood to turn color and I usually neutralize the stain as with aqua fortis although that step may not be necessary with ferric nitrate.  Since using ferric nitrate crystals, I don't bother with AF anymore.

dave

[elkhorne]

smart dog,
Thanks for just answering the question I posed to Taylor a few minutes ago. That eases my mind and probably others in not having to worry with getting and keeping acid around our places. Since you have successfully used the powder/crystals, have you ever tried diluting with alcohol? I seem to have read somewhere about somebody doing that. Thanks, always something new to learn and try.
elkhorne

[wattlebuster]

Dave them sure are some purty guns

[n stephenson]

Thanks Dave, Very nice rifles. On the Site you mentioned , the Science Company  , they also mention using it to darken brass ?  any experience with this?   Nate

[smylee grouch]

Does the ferric nitrate further darken with age as aqua fortis does on some stocks?

[B.Habermehl]

Most of us have only been using ferric nitrate for a few years so the jury might still be out. However unless your using leather dye all finishes darken with age. Leather dye will fade. BJH

[smart dog]

Hi Guys.
Thanks for the compliments on the guns.  Ferric nitrate in water is chemically the same as nitric acid and iron (what is commercially called "aqua fortis) so its behavior is the same.  If AF darkens over time on a stock, I expect FN will as well if the gun is finished the same way.  You can dissolve FN in alcohol and some folks claim it is a clearer stain.  I experimented with alcohol as well and found no detectable difference in appearance from water-based solutions.  However, it is definitely less grain raising.  FN in water seems to still be a very weak acid and I can dissolve iron in it but it takes quite a while.  It should oxidize brass and other metals but very, very slowly compared with stronger nitric acid stains.  I neutralize FN on my stock just like AF but some folks maintain that is not necessary after heating.  I also like the fact that I do not have to deal with and store nitric acid.  I suspect after the acid attacks on people recently that we may find it more difficult to obtain and transport strong acids in the future.  Another plus for FN.

dave 

[moleeyes36]

I've always used nitric acid and iron, but I suspect if you're dissolving ferric nitrate in water it's probably wise to use only distilled water for consistency.  Tap water or bottled waters contain trace mineral elements or chlorine.  These may impact the solution and alter the final color of the wood after staining.  I may be overly cautious, but never discount Murphy's Law.

Mole Eyes

[longcruise]

I ve always used tap water but am thinking distilled would be better in the long run.

How about whiskey? 

[smart dog]

Hi,
With regard to water, I don't worry about it very much.  First, I only make up enough solution for the gun I am working on and I first just use my tap water (from a well).  My water has iron in it and I believe it enhances red tones in the stain.  However, I don't always want heavier red tones so I might then mix the FN with distilled water.  For me, the secret is that I tailor my stain to the wood at hand and my color and finish objectives, and I test the stain on scraps of wood from the stock.  For every gun I build, I have a scrap of wood striped with different FN stain solutions and also coated with my finish. 

dave 

[oldtravler61]

  Everyone knows that whiskey goes on the inside. Not the outside at least in my house. Oldtravler

[conquerordie]

I like using ferric nitrate. On my current gun, I was thinking about using Mr. Kiblers tannic acid  AF. Now I'm thinking of ist using my ferric nitrate. Has anyone used tannic acid with ferric nitrate? Could be fun,
Greg

[smallpatch]

I've used tannic acid and ferric nitrate.  REALLY makes the curl pop, but.........it's hard work.  The combination darkens everything.  A lot of time with a skotchbrite pad to knock down the harder wood, and make the curl appear.
The last one I did turned almost black.  Guess I need to work on strength of the solutions.

[elkhorne]

I purchased some tannic acid off amazon and have yet to try it. Need to find the concentration to use but plan on using it same as Jim Kibler explains to do and try it. Then use the ferric nitrate dissolved in distilled water in several concentrations on a scrap piece of the stock wood in question. Smart dog, what do you use for your neutralizing solution. Some had mentioned ammonia but the kind you get a the grocery store seems pretty strong. There must be a diluted solution that accomplishes the neutralization process but is not overpowering since the ferric nitrate is a weaker acid.
 Oops, I made a slip, where I am from in the South, there is no such thing as scrap curly maple! It is like "wooden gold" down here as most have never seen it. Thanks and anyone else that has any experience using these chemicals in combination, please speak up for all to benefit from. Sounds like from what smallpatch said the concentration of the tannic acid needs to be tested with several different concentrations of ferric nitrate.
elkhorne

[smallpatch]

Elkhorne,
I think the FN solution is good.
 A year or so ago, Jim told me a tablespoon full of tannic acid  in a pint or a quart of water.  He wasn't sure which.  This stuff has been around that long as well.  A fresh batch may be in order.
Those of us who live in the city, don't even DRINK our water.  I think distilled would be smart.