Pure Lead / Spit lube Questions

[Old and grumpy]

  I cast pure lead for Minie Balls, Cap&Ball and other BP stuff that requires the ball to engage the rifling.  I understand why. Also I understand that when hunting a soft ball is better. 

  With a patched round ball the ball does not engage the rifling. It rides in the patch.  If all I am hunting is paper and I have a well cast ball  why would pure lead be better?

  I have lots of "range lead" and scrap but pure is harder to find. I keep it for when it is a must.

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   Spit lube.   I know it works and is about as traditional as you can get.   BUT if the rifle is going to stay loaded for a few days or longer would it kill or weaken the powder?  Also it would dry out thus not lubing any more and if you are a salty old guy like me it might cause rust?   

Also hope they washed that old pillow ticking first.  I would not lick the bottom of my range box but lets pop the patches in the old pie hole!

[Standing Bear]

Ive not used hard lead but hear many have with good success. I think a thicker patch than w soft lead patch n ball would be optimum. Hard round balls are often said to be used on bigger heavier game such as moose and buffalo w good success.  Hopefully a buffalo hunt is in my future.  If so I'll try some harder balls in my .54 flinter.

Re patch lube.  I've used Track o the Wolf mink oil w good success when hunting a week or two w/o firing when a water based lube would dry and maybe cause rust. Also bees wax w a variety of oils has been mentioned- most often cheap olive oil. 1:1 for heavy or thick lube w minie balls and patches in hot weather like S Texas in early season. More oil than bees wax for patches in cold weather.

Good shooting
TC

[Natureboy]

  Spit as a lube works great for target shooting, when you'll shoot almost as soon as the gun is loaded.  But it will definitely dry out if you leave the gun loaded over time, and rust will be an issue as well.  My drill for target shooting is to place the cut patch in my mouth while measuring and pouring the powder, then place the patch on the muzzle with the ball on top.  I've also used some of the commercial lubes, and they work, too, but the last time I did a comparison, ten rounds with lube and ten with spit, the spit-lubed balls printed higher on the target.  I'm sure Pletch has some research on the matter.

[Maven]

Old & grumpy, Harder lead is OK for patched RB's if you have more of it than pure lead, but it's not ideal for conicals or Minie's unless they're grossly undersized.  You see hard lead, e.g., old fashioned wheel weights, will cast a bit larger (diameter) and lighter than pure lead and may require a thinner patch to start and seat the ball.  As for target accuracy, I've seen no difference between the harder v. softer balls.  As for lubes other than spit, google them, but Stumpy's Moose Snot is easy to concoct (and you don't need to use castor oil to make it effective).

[Standing Bear]

Right, Maven.  I overlooked that harder material would cast larger balls. Quandary here. Harder material won't deform into the grooves like soft lead so need a thicker patch too the grooves... BUT harder material requires a thinner patch to load into a barrel.  Deep sigh. 

There was a California shooter successfully shooting solid brass balls. Can't recall which forum or poster. Would be good to get his input.

Oh well, I don't lack for soft lead but will need info if I get to hunt buffalo.  A good source for soft is roofers. The lead vent flashings are great.
TC

[Hungry Horse]

I think the phrase "successfully shooting solid brass balls" is a bit of a stretch. I live in California, and am trying to come up with a replacement bullet that duplicates leads ballistics, gun safety, and humane game harvest, and have yet to find one that covers all these bases. The state doesn't want to talk about traditional muzzleloaders, because they have no solution for lead free ammo for them. They always swing the argument over to inlines that shoot modern bullets.

  Hungry Horse

[Maven]

"There was a California shooter successfully shooting solid brass balls. Can't recall which forum or poster. Would be good to get his input."  ...Standing Bear

SB, I think that was "Roundball" on the Traditional ML Forum.  He got excellent results + the recovered balls were reusable.  As for "hard" lead RB's as cast, but not oven heat-treated, I've found only a minimal increase in diameter, which necessitate using a thinner patch.  Btw, Ric Carter(Waksupi on all forums) is a long time user and advocate for hard lead RB's.

[hanshi]

I know "Roundball" and have corresponded with him.  He's in NC, not Ca.  He did the brass shooting and considered the tests a success.  I think he even killed a deer with one.

Range scrap, WW and harder alloys work fine in front loaders.  I've used them in a couple of rifles and prefer them in a smoothbore.  The slight increase in diameter is mostly irrelevant and I use the same patches for them in .36, .40 and .45.  They are difficult to patch in my smoothbore as it is a tight .610"; so I shoot them without a patch.  They even have the advantage of causing less damage to small game since they don't expand.  I use rather tight loads, anyway, so I don't notice any difference in rifles. 

Spit patch is good for accurate loads but should never be left in the bore for any length of time.  It dries out fairly quickly and can cause rust to form.  BEing old and dry I no longer use spit patch; I like TOW mink oil or sometimes Hoppes BP lube.

[Old and grumpy]

Thanks for all the info.  Sort of what I thought about both questions. 

[Standing Bear]

Thanks for the correction Hanshi.  Poor old memory here.  I recall part of the discussion about brass projectiles being applicable to Cal so thought that was why he was
Working the project.
TC

[Smoketown]

BEing old and dry I no longer use spit patch; I like TOW mink oil or sometimes Hoppes BP lube.

I think the word 'desiccated' would be the gent'ler term ...      


Cheers,
Smoketown

PS - I'm so desiccated that I may change my handle to "Dusty"   

[Old and grumpy]

Any one use  ITX  balls?   Way too expensive for target but would work for no lead hunting.    http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ITX-Muzzleloading-Roundballs/products/854/

[hanshi]

BEing old and dry I no longer use spit patch; I like TOW mink oil or sometimes Hoppes BP lube.

I think the word 'desiccated' would be the gent'ler term ...      


Cheers,
Smoketown

PS - I'm so desiccated that I may change my handle to "Dusty"   

  I stand corrected, Smoketown.  "Dessicated" it is.

[Standing Bear]

Sorry OnG, I didn't respond to this part of the original post.

"With a patched round ball the ball does not engage the rifling. It rides in the patch.  If all I am hunting is paper and I have a well cast ball  why would pure lead be better?"

With a tight ball and patch the soft lead will  Flow? Swage? Into the grooves a little and the bearing surface contacting the lands will thicken thus improveing "traction" or imparting as consistent spin as the load is capable of creating. IMO soft lead (along w a thick patch and good lube) is MORE important on the range than hunting where I'll use hard lead on bigger critters.
TC

[Old and grumpy]

That sounds right S.B.   I have been told that with a proper fitting patch and ball the recovered patch will not be cut. Now I just have to figure out how to find them mixed in with the other junk at the range!

[Daryl]

It sure helps if you are not alone and the 'other' person can watch for the patch, then walk out and pick it up.