Shootin bag question?

[lonehunter]

Historically, where do the double pouches come in?
Was it a smothbore thing?
How common were they?

[lonehunter]

Well this is a bit embarrassing over 100 views and nothing. lol
Is this a stupid question! A bad subject, or am I missing something?

I am putting together a kit to go with my new rifle, I have a very nice double bag made by Ron Nance and would like to use it if it will fit.

[Ron Scott]

If you are trying to match a bag to a rifle, the architecture of the bag and materials are likely more a factor than if it is a double form. A photo might help draw some comments.

[EricEwing]

Here is a recent thread about this topic: http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=44336.msg434938#msg434938

[lonehunter]

Thank you

[hanshi]

And remember; there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. 

[Joe S.]

I kinda remember that saying going a little different,"there's never stupid questions,just stupid people"and I was called stupid after asking the question

[Elnathan]

Never got around to replying, sorry.

Earliest original double bag I know of is from maybe around 1810, and is pictured in the Book of Buckskinning IV, IIRC. Doesn't mean that there aren't earlier one out there, just that that is the one I remember.

There is a mid-18th century English painting - Phillip Mercier's portrait of Sir Edward Hales -  that includes what looks very much like a double bag, but I can't find the very, very large picture I found when the subject last came up. Only ones online are a bit small to see the detail.

[Jerry]

IMHO I never could figure out the why for a double bag. I have never had a need for a double bag. I carry only the minimum in my pouch to load and maintain my fowler or rifle. Anything other than that, I carry a small haversack on my opposite side.

[Elnathan]

Found the detail pic in my archives!




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Still looks a lot like a double bag to me.

[hanshi]

I kinda remember that saying going a little different,"there's never stupid questions,just stupid people"and I was called stupid after asking the question

I just don't know.  Because sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.  Basically, I believe those who call questions "stupid" are full of themselves and NOT full of any knowledge.

[Hungry Horse]

My humble opinion is that the double bags got their origins from the early Germanic bags that had a netted game bag attached. And, when the materials, and, or skills to produce the fine netting did exist on the frontier, the second leather bag took its place.

  Hungry Horse

[Elnathan]

IMHO I never could figure out the why for a double bag. I have never had a need for a double bag. I carry only the minimum in my pouch to load and maintain my fowler or rifle. Anything other than that, I carry a small haversack on my opposite side.

Allows you to keep your flints, turnscrew, worm, and tow in the back, and keep the balls loose in the front? I have a single compartment bag and keep everything in its own separate sub-container, a la Mark Baker, but have found that I spend a lot of time trying to get a patch out of the patch bag, then hold on to it while I fumble around taking the stopper out of the ball pouch, getting a ball to come out of the pouch, then replace the stopper, and replace the ball bag. Lot easier and smoother (and faster) to just reach int and grab a loose ball off the bottom of the bag, but you can't do that if you have other stuff in the bag.

Next bag I make will definitely be sub-divided, so I can stow the flint, tow, and tools in the rear section and leave the balls loose in the front one. Might even put a pocket in particularly to carry patches, if I use a wooden box on the rifle instead of a brass one.

[lonehunter]

Thanks for the reply's, Elnathan thanks for the visual, that does appear to be a double bag. Pretty cool picture as well.
So I have come to understand that while not the norm they were in use. I have several very nice bags made by Mr. Nance, all dedicated to a weapon except for this double bag. I was pondering using it with my newest rifle (not yet complete) but from the information gained from you fine gentleman and much consideration I think I will move one of my nicer single bags to this kit.

It works out rather well as I now want/need a fowler to go with this double bag

[James Rogers]

Double bags go back to medieval at least. Many wealthy gents of the 18th century utilized bags for sporting purposes that were styled afret much earlier bags.
The image Elnathon posted has baffled me for years and I am still on the fence as to a conclusion .  It does have metal belt loops.

[Marcruger]

The one in the painting could possibly be a double bag, but it appears mighty thin, and is hanging flat rather than spreading out a little.  It may just be the painter's version of the real bag is the problem.  Best wishes, and God Bless,   Marc

[lonehunter]

Trying out a new photo host, hope this works. Figured it would be a good chance to show the bag I was referring to.




upload image lossless

[lonehunter]

Hey it worked! lol
Here's my Sunday go to meetin bag!



free ebay image hosting

[thecapgunkid]

This isn't a stupid question but rather a perennial one.  Assuming that a double pouch started in the 1800's because that's the earliest known one is kind of like assuming the world is flat because, last time we looked, we could only see so far from the ground.

I just took a bunch of 1/2 inch PCV pipes, cut to a certain length and plugged at one end with an off the shelf screw head plug and plugged at the other end with cork so I could load something other than paper cartridges on a trail walk.  They could have been wooden sewing needle cases instead of fakes just looking like bone.  The dilemma became what to do with the empties.

Viola...the first double pouch I ever  made and used.

Speculating on what "They" had and "They"  didn't have  becomes pointless because leather and cloth, in terms of longevity, are perishable goods.   What you should focus on is using authentic materials  ( e.g. flax thread instead of artificial sinew and an awl instead of a rotary punch)  and the quality of your bag will fall into place.

A really good researcher has to admit that we don't know what we don't know about what every layman did or how their day to day went.  If the bag works for you and makes your shooting better, then bring it.  Anybody who tells you that they had  no double pouches before such-and-such a date can be put away with one simple question..."Who's "They"?"

Hope this helps.

The Still River Cordwainer

AKA The Capgun KId

[skillman]

Sure wish we had a "like" button on here.

Steve

[Darkhorse]

I'm not sure what you mean by a "Double Bag?" I do have a bag that in divided by a leather piece resulting in two equal sides. I use it the way Elnathon said, I keep the balls loose in the outer side along with a strip of lubed patching and that's all. The inside has a pouch and holds powder measure and various needed stuff. The bottom of the bag holds plenty of cleaning patches, a small bottle of alcohol for wiping the pan, friz and flint.
I started hunting with a ML in 1976 and I've tried loading blocks and everything I could think of to speed my reloading. But for me nothing works better than just reaching into the bag and grabbing a ball and patching. I do the same thing with single bags but there is usually other stuff to sort through.

[Mick C]

My thoroughly researched, expert in the field, highly educated (yeah right) answer to your quiery......They've been around a very long time.