Author Topic: LMF cold brown  (Read 2954 times)

Offline yip

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LMF cold brown
« on: August 15, 2017, 06:49:24 PM »
  I'm having a little trouble, the rest of the barrel is fine except a 1/2 long and a 1/4" wide  section at the muzzle, no matter what i do just won't take. any ideas?   ...........yip

Offline PPatch

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2017, 06:58:56 PM »
have you tried removing all finish and redoing that patch after a good cleaning with acetone? LMF is quite forgiving and I have had very good success with it.

dp
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Offline yip

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2017, 08:13:30 PM »
  cleaned with alcohol, i'll try the acetone 

Offline Long John

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2017, 04:51:44 PM »
Yip,

There is a rule in chemistry:  "Like dissolves like."  Now, what is that supposed to mean?!!!

There are two kinds of molecule polar and non-polar.  Polar molecules have a positive end and a negative end.  Non-polar molecules are essentially neutral.  When you want to clean something you have to use a solvent that has the same kind of polar/non-polar characteristic as the stuff you are trying to clean off. 

Both acetone and "alcohol" are polar molecules.  The both have slightly less polar nature than water but they are still polar.  When cleaning unknown stuff we have to use a combination of polar and nonpolar solvents to make sure we have a solvent that dissolves the stuff we want gone.  When we add "soap" to water we dissolve a molecule with a large nonpolar end on one side with a polar end on the other.  The polar end combines with the water and the nonpolar end dissolves the nonpolar stuff.  That's why detergent solution cleans greasy plates, etc.

When I have a barrel to clean I first wear canvas gardening gloves.  I wash the barrel in lacquer thinner (VERY nonpolar) and then hot soapy water (Dawn detergent).  I don't rely on the assertion that something is both a degreaser and a browning agent.  I clean thoroughly and handle the parts only with gloves. This works for me.

I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

JMC
John Cholin

Black Hand

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2017, 04:55:19 PM »
  I'm having a little trouble, the rest of the barrel is fine except a 1/2 long and a 1/4" wide  section at the muzzle, no matter what i do just won't take. any ideas?   ...........yip
Try roughing with a little fine sandpaper (220), degrease and try again.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2017, 06:39:25 PM »
LMF works great for me.  I've been using for 20+ years.
i also wear gloves, degrease with 409 cleaner, and rinse.  By the time i get it rinsed and in the sweatbox, its already rusting.
DONT RUB!
Id try what Black Hand says.  Lightly sand the area, degrease, and try again.  Only had that problem once...... I used anti-seize on the breech plug, and some seeped out of the seam, and wouldn't brown.  Degreased and re-applied.... no more issues.
Hope that helps.
In His grip,

Dane

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2017, 07:18:41 PM »
I insist on cleaning steel thoroughly prior to browning, no matter the solution.  If water does not wet the steel (you can see this phenomenon by drops forming with areas of non-wet adjacent), then browning solution will not rust that area.
Following drawfiling and polishing to whatever degree the project calls for, I plug both ends of the barrel, having removed sights and breech plug, and take it to the laundry sink, where I scrub with a green Scotchbrite pad with water and Comet, a powdered cleanser.  Old Dutch does not work as well.  Comet is the ticket.  The Comet and Scotchbrite polish the barrel a little more, and remove every vestige of oil and grease.  In sight slots, I use Comet and a toothbrush, similarly around underlugs, and ribs on a half stocked barrel.  Then I flush thoroughly with hot water, and check for those little islands where water doesn't wet the steel, and finding none, dry the barrel with paper towels.  I move the dried barrel handling only on the plugs to the "V" blocks that will support the barrel during the browning application.  My damp box has already been set up with fresh hot water and an interior light bulb for heat, and the barrel then hangs from the box's ceiling for three hours.  Then I remove and apply another application of solution on the bench blocks, and then return the barrel this time the other end up, to the box.  A barrel requires between five and seven of these cycles to get a good brown, here where humidity is around 30% at the best of times.  If this process needs to continue the next day, because of time issues, I take the barrel out and set it in the "V" blocks overnight.  Almost always, this evens out the rusting.  Oh, forgot to mention;  I card the barrel with a two inch diameter roll of heavy canvas, using the ends to scrub the steel, between applications.  Otherwise, the barrel's surface becomes very course and grainy.  Some prefer this finish, but I like the barrel's surface to be smooth, and the brown IN rather than ON the steel.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Vomitus

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 11:08:33 PM »
  Good explanation Taylor.

Offline Ray Settanta

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 11:29:07 PM »
Is it necessary to use distilled water or is tap water good enough?

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 03:19:19 AM »
I use tap water.  Our city water is considered of the finest anywhere on earth.  But it is not soft.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline yip

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 02:06:30 PM »
  the barrel as a whole turned out fine, the trouble is a spot on the muzzle about 1/2"long. i'll try it again following the suggestions posted, this is the first time this happened to me, wish me luck!!!!!!!...........yip
'

Offline Michigan Flinter

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Re: LMF cold brown
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 08:55:03 PM »
I like to bead blast the barrel and handle it with clean gloves on and into the sweat box. works for me.