Need help adjusting cock

[pjmcdonald]

Gentlemen,

The cock on my rifle is canted slightly left, or towards the barrel. This causes the flint to strike the edge of the barrel ever so slightly.  It is also noticeably wearing the barrel side of the frizzen face more than the center or right.

How would I safely bend or otherwise adjust?

Today was my first day at the range with her. She is my first build, a TVM (Natchez) kit put together under Jim's tutelage - iron mounted SMR.  Not quite reliably sparking. I'm trying to undo some harm I did while building. These photos might clarify the problem.








I did try a wider flint and I tried adjusting the flint in the jaws. It would turn back to the position as shown after striking.

Thanks,
Paul

[Daryl]

Personally, if I did not have Taylor handy to remedy something like this, I would remove the cock, then clamp it in leather in my bench vice, then slightly bend the jaws outward, so they miss the barrel.  If it broke, I'd simply buy another from trackofthewolf that was the correct throw.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The flint should not turn in the jaws.  Have you punched teeth into the top and bottom jaws of the cock?  Use a piece of leather cut from the wrist of a work glove, and clamp it hard.

To bend your cock, clamp the bottom half of the cock in copper or brass jaws in your machinist's vise, remove the top jaw screw and jaw, and with a big cresent wrench, padded again with non-ferrous metal, twist the cock outward about 1/8".  Try it on the lock and see if you love it or not.  If the lock has not been case hardened, there's no need for heat...bend it cold, and a little is a lot.

Interesting that Daryl beat me to it by a few seconds.

[pjmcdonald]

Thanks much. I wasn't sure if I should heat or not. Will try bending. Worst that can happen is I need a new one. Already broke a tumbler!

Yes, the jaws have teeth. Guess I was afraid to torque down too hard. Will try that too.

Hey, if I'm not breaking things, I'm not trying. Right?!

Paul

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Your first photo shows that the cock is set on the tumbler squarely, and parallel to the plate...all good.  It needs a little tweek in the neck, is all.  go easy.

[rich pierce]

There is little need to center the flint in the jaws in my experience. I'd offset the flint in the jaws,

[Eric Kettenburg]

I'd second what Rich said.  Just offset the flint, give that a go.  Sure, you can bend it, but it's even easier to just reorient the flint.  If the jaws are tightening effectively, I don't see how it should be moving.

[Jim Chambers]

I have a good collection of original locks, and most of the cocks don't line up perfectly with the frizzen.  Offsetting the flint as others have said is the way it was done in the past.

[axelp]

I just offset the flint and tightened her down. worked fine for me. But it is annoying to have to do that.

[Mike Brooks]

There is little need to center the flint in the jaws in my experience. I'd offset the flint in the jaws,

Me too, do it all the time.

[Dave Marsh]

The flint should not turn in the jaws.  Have you punched teeth into the top and bottom jaws of the cock?


What would be the procedure and tools used to punch teeth into the top and bottom jaws of the cock?

Dave

[rich pierce]

I make an oversized square graver. Like times 3 oversized compared to a graver, from tool steel. Then raise some wicked burrs. The burra should be oriented to prevent the leather slipping forward. So the graver is pointing to the nose of the flint platform, not the top jaw screw.

[Scota4570]

Is the cock parallel with the plate?  If it is not you might mess with the fit on the tumbler to make it so.  Bending the cock  outward messes that up and looks goofie, I would try to avoid bending the cock to make the inside flat surface of the neck a curve.

It looks like the jaws of cock may be twisted so that the flint angles in, (pigeon toed?).  I would fix that first. Put the bottom of the cock in a vice, heat the thin part it red hot and give the top part a twist with a cresent wrench to make the jaws straighter, or even angle out a bit. 

Is the lock plate perlindicular to the top flat of the barrel?  It it is canted that can contirbute to the issue too. 

Addendum:  Yes, hold the front of the flint in the desired position, relative to the frizzen, with your left hand, while you tighten the cock screw with the right hand. 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I agree with other posters regarding the positioning of the flint to strike the frizzen with better flint/steel contact.  The flint does not have to be clamped down in the centre of the jaws...setting it outbound a bit will look after this orientation.  I was trying to answer the op's question, in case the cock is, as someone described, pigeon-toed. I almost always have to set the flint in the jaws so that it better aligns with the frizzen, and also, frequently chip off the inside corner to prevent the flint from striking the angle flat of the barrel.  Standard procedure.

[retired fella]

Put me in the adjust the flint column.  There is a good chance that if you try torqueing the cock outward you may affect the solid connection with the lock plate (stop) which could get ugly.

[sqrldog]

It is possible for a hammer  to have a little toe into the lock or for that matter  a little outboard turn to it. I think this occurs when the wax gets warped a little prior to being cast.  I recently had a lock that  had the flint cock toed in a tiny bit. It would work but the fint was by necessity hanging out to the right and didn't look right. Took just a minute to remove the cock take off the top jaw put it In smooth jawed vise clamp it up to the shelf ledge and take a cresent wrench and tweak it a little. Just a slight twist in the right direction was all it required. No heat required but I would use heat for a major adjustment. Tim

[Marcruger]

This is pretty much how I install a flint.  That way it is always guaranteed to be flush to the face of the frizzen/hammer when installed.  I offset to miss the barrel when needed. 

I hope this helps.

Best wishes, and God Bless,  Marc

[pjmcdonald]

Thanks all. Out of town on business this week but will first try simply moving the flint when I get home and get back to the range.

The lock plate is square to the barrel and the cock square to the plate on the tumbler. Took a good deal of filing to fix the latter problem, as I had to fit a used tumbler to replace the one I broke. I think the jaws are just slightly toe-in.

Will report back. Thanks again.

Paul

(ps - almost titled this something a bit less, um, suggestive. But decided it was clear, to the point, and might provide a chuckle. PJ)

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Strong Bear:  Rich's big square graver is better than the system I use.  I simply use a needle sharp prick puch to raise teeth on the faces of the cock jaws.  I used to coat the surface with felt pen, scratch a grid pattern and then punch, but now I just start punching.  I punch from the back toward the front, so that the teeth rake rearward, though I doubt it makes any difference....just looks better.

[Dave Marsh]

Thanks to Rich and Taylor for the input.  I am going to try it. 

Dave 

[pjmcdonald]

Adjusting the flint worked fine. Decided not to mess with trying to bend the cock. Too much potential for failure. Moved the flint outboard and tightened sufficiently.

New problem - front sight decided to become loose. Thought I had it dovetailed tightly but maybe a little too much drifting it at the range. Will sort that before next weekend's range session.

Off to go clean powder residue...

Thanks again for all the help.

Paul