Author Topic: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?  (Read 4160 times)

Offline jerrywh

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What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« on: September 26, 2017, 08:36:35 AM »
 I think most were just varnished. some had blued barrels, like fire blued. I think most were left bright. Read this if you can.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 08:37:21 AM by jerrywh »
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Offline SingleMalt

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2017, 03:38:18 PM »
I'd tend to agree.  A plain oil varnish was probably the most common.
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Offline Phip

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2017, 04:51:03 PM »
The use of semicolons would have helped us be sure what this source really means.  Since there are no semicolons, I'd incline to interpret this based on typical English sentence structure where the parenthetical or dependent clauses follow and elaborate on the main one.  Read in that manner the advertisement says the stocks are plain or neatly varnished, the barrels are blued, bored and rifled.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2017, 04:52:03 PM »
I think a lot would depend on where you were located. Smiths in more heavily populated areas, where some of the more exotic ingredients for more sufisticated finishes were available, no doubt used them. But smiths on the edge of the frontier, or in the more back woodsy parts of the country, more than likely used what was available. I also believe much of the metal work was left bright on many longrifles. But, I have also examined old barrels that appear to be fire blued, rust blued, browned,  and one SMR that appeared to have been coated with linseed oil when hot, in blacksmith fashion.
 I don't think there is a one answer fits all applications here. I think you will have to research the gunsmith, and or the region, if you are going to get metal and wood finishes correct.

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Online rich pierce

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2017, 05:30:08 PM »
Agree with HH. Where and when will make a big difference. I think a varnish finish was most likely widely used with local variations in coloring added. Iron was likely bright or fire blued early on but locks were probably almost always case hardened then polished bright. Overall browning when new seems to have come somewhat later though early guns show heavy accumulated rust that is essentially browning externally.
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Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 07:39:22 PM »
Most firearms in general seem to have been finished bright in the 18th century and earlier as others have noted, so that would be my assumption as the most common finish as well. However, heat blue and other finishes were definitely known and used on firearms, especially on higher end guns including some German jaeger rifles. Browning was a lot more common in the late 18th century and into the 19th century on a variety of guns. One thing I've wondered is if rifles may have been purposely not polished very bright to avoid glare. No real way to tell after centuries of aging.
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Offline Elnathan

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 03:00:26 PM »
I wonder how they were bluing sword blades without ruining the temper.
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Offline Seth Isaacson

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 11:50:01 PM »
I wonder if the swords are actually only partially niter blued as is fairly common on dress swords in the 19th century.
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Offline okieboy

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2017, 06:04:33 PM »
 The word "varnish" when used in earlier times didn't always mean the same thing as when we say varnish today. Shellacking in past times was often called varnish.
 Here is a small, but very good article on historic varnishes.

http://www.williamsburgartconservation.com/historic-varnishes-and-resi.html
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Offline Paddlefoot

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2017, 07:54:03 PM »
Interesting that there were so many skill sets presented. Some time back someone mentioned that Lehigh guns often had a red coloration to them and gunsmiths of that area frequently had violin making tools listed in their estates. It would be interesting to see if they used a "ground" under their varnish as a lot of violin makers do.
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Offline Eric Kettenburg

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2017, 08:34:20 PM »
Interesting that there were so many skill sets presented. Some time back someone mentioned that Lehigh guns often had a red coloration to them and gunsmiths of that area frequently had violin making tools listed in their estates. It would be interesting to see if they used a "ground" under their varnish as a lot of violin makers do.

I don't believe they did.  The entire purpose of a ground under the musical instrument varnish serves a couple of purposes, not merely to seal the wood but to present a very smooth surface that will mask residual tool marks and - probably as a by product, not intentionally - to solidify the entire structure into more of a single integrated unit.  When carefully removing varnish from assorted stringed instruments, it is fairly easy to discern the use of a ground layer.  I have not seen any evidence of this on any 'red' Lehigh/Northampton rifle that I've worked upon, and furthermore, despite even the finest application of any given varnish, tool markings generally remain fairly visible.  Of course, firearms are subjected to much harder use and environmental condition than a violin for example, so possibly environmental stresses may have raised tool markings subsequently.  I do believe the Lehigh pieces were sealed with something (they would have to have been), probably a shellac/sedlac type product or else a layer or two of a thinned oil sealer, or perhaps a resin sealer, but I don't believe I would personally categorize it as a proper "ground" as utilized with stringed instruments.
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Offline grabenkater

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Re: What was the most common original finish on Longrifles?
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2017, 09:32:07 PM »
Most firearms in general seem to have been finished bright in the 18th century and earlier as others have noted, so that would be my assumption as the most common finish as well. However, heat blue and other finishes were definitely known and used on firearms, especially on higher end guns including some German jaeger rifles. Browning was a lot more common in the late 18th century and into the 19th century on a variety of guns. One thing I've wondered is if rifles may have been purposely not polished very bright to avoid glare. No real way to tell after centuries of aging.

This reminds me of how suits of original armour which were original blackened or painted were polished bright by Victorian collectors/restorers.
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