Ballistol and water for patch lube

[DuncanvonYeast]

I am resighting in my .45 caliber longrifle, I made for myself last year. Currently I am shooting 60 grains of goex 3F, a .440 ball, and a spit lubed  .024 patch. I am looking to see if Ballistol and water is a better option. I have heard of people using 5:1, 6:1, 7:1, and even 1:1 Water and Ballistol. I am looking to figure out what is a good patch lube.
                                            Thanks for all of the help,
                                                         Duncan von Yeast

[smart dog]

Hi Duncan,
Ballistol and water is basically what was called Moose Milk, I believe.  Currently, 1:7 mix Ballistol to water is my lube of choice and it works very well. Depending on if I am cutting the patch at the muzzle or using precut patches (for example with a loading block) I soak the strips of material or patches thoroughly in the lube, then I lay them out on a paper towel overnight. The next day the strips get rolled up and patches get stacked and then put in a little plastic bag that can be sealed until I use them for shooting.

dave

[OldMtnMan]

I used Ballistol straight 100% for patch lube for a while. It worked good. I've never been a fan of moose milk.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have used it at about 7:1 ratio, and it worked fine.  Useless, however, for a hunting lube.

[Don Steele]

Never tried Ballistol/water as a wet lube.
Like a lot of other folks however..I have great success using a 1:7 solution of Ballistol:water to soak patch material in, lay out flat (I don't wring it out) to dry overnight and shoot "dry patch". Shooting "dry patch" I find it necessary to wipe between shots.
With a tight combination and consistent wiping technique between shots, all other things being equal I get results darn near as good as when I have used Teflon coated patch material.

[Flint62Smoothie]

... great success using a 1:7 solution of Ballistol:water to soak patch material in ... lay out flat to dry ... shoot "dry patch” ... wipe between shots.

Yes, for a ‘dry patch’ system that combo is indeed about the best. Dutch Schoultz who popularized it also recommends trying different ratios to see if your gun has a preference, but most use
7:1.

For hunting in ccccc ccold weather, temps to freezing and below, that mink oil by Track of the Wolf does it for me.

[rich pierce]

I have used it at about 7:1 ratio, and it worked fine.  Useless, however, for a hunting lube.

Taylor, because it requires wiping between shots?

[galudwig]

I've used the Dutch Schoultz method for years; starting out with soluble oil, but switching over to Ballistol a few years ago. For the patches I use in target shooting, I settled on a 1:6 Ballistol:water mixture.  Like others said, I tried  several mixtures but have gotten the best results at 1:6.

For hunting, I wanted something "slicker" so that I didn't have to wipe between shots, so I tried a 50:50 mix of Ballistol:water.  I was afraid that much Ballistol in a patch sitting for an extended period against powder might cause some ignition problems.  I experimented by leaving small amounts of BP resting on several 50:50 mix patches for a few days.  When I touched matches to them, the powder flashed without hesitation. I always start my hunting day with a fresh load anyway, so I figure Ballistol's affect on BP during the course of a day is negligible. Accuracy is still good and it loads easier than the drier mixtures. 

Remember that the water is just a carrier to get the Ballistol into solution and onto the patch material. I always let my treated patch material dry out on a flat, non-porous surface for a couple of days to let the water evaporate completely (old cookie sheets are perfect for this).  All that is left behind is the Ballistol.

[smokinbuck]

Duncan,
Moose milk has been around for a long time and has it's followers, I was one. I have been using Mr Flintlock and haven't looked back. I understand it is the same as, or similar to, the old Lehigh Valley Lube. No muss, no fuss, no mixing. I
Mark

[T*O*F]

I've used the Dutch Schoultz method for years

I don't know if he is still alive or not as he would be pushing 90. His eyes went bad and he hadn't shot a rifle in over 35 years and based his Ballistol information on advice from his correspondents.  He is/was a true gentleman though.  He gave me his lead pot full of lead about 25 years ago and also a tin of his favorite English tea.  I still use the pot.  I think Snapper took him out to dinner a couple of times.

[Hungry Horse]

I think there might be an inherent inability in this sport to accept simplicity in any form. For years I ran like a mad man to every oddball cleaning recipe out there. Finally logic took over, and I decided that the men that gambled their lives on their muzzleloading guns might have the answer. They did, it water, not hot water, not water with some kind of twentieth century wiz bang stuff in it. Just plain old cold water.
 This long learning curve cost me a lot of time, a ton of money, and a couple of good gun barrels ( sacrificed at the alter of hydrogen peroxide). But now I’m cured, it way to simple I know, but Friends it works, and works cheap.

  Hungry Horse

[Flint62Smoothie]

I don't know if he is still alive or not as he would be pushing 90. His eyes went bad and he hadn't shot a rifle in over 35 years and based his Ballistol information on advice from his correspondents.

- Dutch is still alive and actively posting over on The Traditional Muzzleloading forums.

- You are quite correct that he originally conceived the dry patch concept using a water-soluble cutting oil. When the EPA forced changes to that recipe, he then switched to Ballistol based on some recommendations he received.

[Maven]

I've used 1 Ballistol : 6 water for many years with nary a problem re fouling buildup or accuracy.  However, I wouldn't use it for a hunting lube because I don't want a wet patch atop my powder charge when I may have to wait for more than a few minutes to fire the gun.  For that, a grease lube/patch is much better.  As there are at least a bazillion types, both commercial and home brewed, I won't say much more about them.  However, Stumpy's Moose Snot* works well for me and is quite easy to make.


*Stumpy's recipe uses castor oil, which can be hard to find.  When I asked him (via e-mail) whether olive oil could be substtuted for the castor oil, he replied that other oils, e.g., canola, olive, peanut, could be used.

[Flint62Smoothie]

I've used 1 Ballistol : 6 water for many years with nary a problem re fouling buildup or accuracy.  However, I wouldn't use it for a hunting lube because I don't want a wet patch atop my powder charge when I may have to wait for more than a few minutes to fire the gun.

Just to clarify here ... most of us here advocating a ratio of Ballistol as a patch lube, were talking about it’s use as part of the DRY patch system that Dutch popularized.

Maven - I agree w/ you, were you were advising not to use it hunting as a ‘wet’ patch lube.

[hanshi]

Seems you and I are in agreement, Hungry Horse.  I use mink oil for hunting and it won't rust the bore and can be left loaded indefinitely with no harm.  At the range I use a lot of Hoppes BP Lube.  When time comes to clean the gun, it's cold water, too.  I don't like the fuss and bother of mixing up lubes that usually aren't as good as the simple and easily acquired lubes my guns like.

[okawbow]

A 6-1 water to Balistol works great for wet patch lube in my rifles. I use a tight patch and don't wipe between shots on woods walks and offhand matches. Loads great. I only use enough to load easily, not soppy wet.

I also use the same mix to swab between shots on my chunk gun. I run a wet patch then a dry patch, and then load with either dry patches made from the same lube, or teflon.

[OldMtnMan]

Mixing water with Ballistol can be used for hunting. The water is just a carrier for the Ballistol. Once the water evaporates you have straight Ballistol. I eliminate the process and use straight Ballistol. I rubbed it into the patch just like I do with mink oil now. I've never been one to soak the whole patch. It only needs to be lubed on the side that goes against the bore. Why lube the side that goes against the ball? Won't the patch grab the ball better if it'a dry?

Dutch's system works good for target shooting. I talked to him quite a bit by email. It's not a good system to hunt with.

[HAWKEN]

I understand that the Ballistol water system has been around for quite a while.  I have not yet tried it my self, but would not substituting 91% or denatured alcohol for the water dry quicker? robin

[OldMtnMan]

I use alcohol to clean out the Ballistol in the bore before shooting. It's not what you want to add to Ballistol.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Rich:  sorry for the tardy reply.  When I use Ballistol and water (somewhere around 1:7) I use it wet - dripping wet.  I don't ever use a dry patch.  The water in the patch will rust my bore, if left unshot, as when hunting.  So I use Mink Oil from TOW for my hunting lube.

[Mike in Oz]

I use the Dutch Schoultz method for target shooting and have seen a significant improvement in accuracy.

Highly recommended!

[Skirmisher]

Duncan-  Been experimenting with this technique recently, dry-patching with a 1:5 mix.  What I like is that if I wipe between shots, the point of impact for the first shot is the same as the second and third.
Recently I discovered that I get similiarly good results by LIGHTLY misting my treated patch material with Lehigh before loading, allowing me to do a bit more careless in wiping the bore.  Either way, I like this better than simply wetting untreated patching or using any of the grease or oils I have used.
I plan to try a mix of 1:7 next, by the way.  I will let you know if it works any better.
Jim L

[Daryl]

Duncan-  Been experimenting with this technique recently, dry-patching with a 1:5 mix.  What I like is that if I wipe between shots, the point of impact for the first shot is the same as the second and third.
Recently I discovered that I get similiarly good results by LIGHTLY misting my treated patch material with Lehigh before loading, allowing me to do a bit more careless in wiping the bore.  Either way, I like this better than simply wetting untreated patching or using any of the grease or oils I have used.
I plan to try a mix of 1:7 next, by the way.  I will let you know if it works any better.
Jim L

That's interesting, Jim. What I like about shooting without wiping, is my 2nd shot through my 60th shot hit exactly the same poi with exactly the same loading pressure required - next to none when using a water based lube WWWF.  Indeed, my .36 loads easier than any others - 2 finger on the rod and down she goes.  .350" ball, .021" denim patch, 50gr. 3F in .008" deep 48" twist rifling - Rice Barrel.
If using Mink Oil the first through 60th hit exactly the same & I never have to wipe while shooting.