Simon Kenton Rifle

[mark brier]

Gentleman, in planning future builds I would like to make a rifle that could have been carried by Simon. There is relation by marriage on my mothers side of the Dawson family, to which I also named my son Kenton. The question is what do you gents think this rifle may have looked like? Any speculation as to any certain maker. As there is very little to zero information to theorize on I am interested in your thoughts.
Mark Brier

[Mike Brooks]

What period of his life? Was he a Virginian originally?

[mark brier]

Middle 1770's

[rich pierce]

I would choose the Haymaker Rifle. It’s a great gun, not overly fancy, terrific architecture. Look it up in Rifles if Colonial America, google, and search here.

[tiswell]

The Haymaker could be a great choice. Mel Hankla does a Simon Kenton impersonation and is a historian as well as being quite knowledgeable about longrifles. It might be worth reaching out to him to see if he has any historical info to get you closer. Just a thought.

                                                                                                  Blessings, Bill

[Mike Brooks]

I would choose the Haymaker Rifle. It’s a great gun, not overly fancy, terrific architecture. Look it up in Rifles if Colonial America, google, and search here.

That's a good choice.

[flinchrocket]

Personally,I would have to go with the Conrad Humble rifle, or maybe Michael Humble if later in his life. Kenton was a scout for George Rogers Clark in 1778, according to Wikipedia. In an article by Mel Hankla he says Michael Humble was a captain in Cpt. Bowman's company under George Rogers Clark during the revolution. I like that connection, it shows they more than likely knew each other at least.

[Ky-Flinter]

The Greene County Ohio Historical Society in Xenia, Ohio has a rifle that belonged to Kenton.

In addition, the Huntington Art Museum in Huntington, West Virginia has a rifle purported to have belonged to Kenton.

If anyone is nearby to these locations, they can see the real thing (maybe).

-Ron

[Mike Brooks]

The Greene County Ohio Historical Society in Xenia, Ohio has a rifle that belonged to Kenton.

In addition, the Huntington Art Museum in Huntington, West Virginia has a rifle purported to have belonged to Kenton.

If anyone is nearby to these locations, they can see the real thing (maybe).

-Ron

I've seen a lot of guns that belonged to D. Boone as well. You can always tell because his name is usually crudely carved into the stock.

[Bob Roller]

The Kenton rifle had a big military lock on it.The one here in the Huntington Museum of Art has it in
their collection.I got it out of the display and measured it and your Grandfather Tom Dawson made a
copy of it. That big lock was an awkward arrangement and Tom said it was like pulling the trigger on
a 1/2 inch drive drill motor.That big mainspring and heavy frizzen made for some odd handling to say
the least.

Bob Roller

[Bob Roller]

One more thing. I think the picture of the Kenton rifle with the
big lock may be in Walter Cline's book.I can't find it in Major Ned
Roberts book.

Bob Roller

[WKevinD]

Dillons book has a picture of it, poor quality by today's photo standards but a photo of a curious gun anyhow.
Kevin
 

[mark brier]

Thanks for the replies. To narrow it down more I am interested in the first rifle given to him by Butler and just what it may have been. I am thinking about building a representation of what I think it may have been and looked like. As far as the northern Virginia area of Fauquire and Culpeper county. I am personally drawn to F. Klette of Culpeper county.
Mark Brier

[Icoreiny]

Ref Jacob Butlers’ gifted rifle to Simon Kenton according to the book “The Frontiersmen” the rifle had been given initially to Butler by a man named Samuel Tigue from Lancaster.  I’m guessing the same town of Lancaster school of rifle fame. 
It was made by Henry Leman of Lancaster. I’m just quoting from the text so cannot confirm any of this info as documented. Much of this volume is documented with the authors footnotes tho.

Simon Kenton lost that rifle during an Indian raid on one of his station camps later tho. 
A terrific read for cold winter nights. History of the Old Northwest’s “Middle Ground”.

[mark brier]

I have been looking for my copy of The Frontiersman.... it's somewhere in the house...... I recall that in the book. I would assume that it would be Lancaster Virginia, not Pennsylvania

[Icoreiny]

Your right.  Maybe because all of that territory was wilderness.  States and counties as we know them now weren’t established.  That’s just the impression I took from the authors writings.

[mark brier]

Unless there was an elder Henry Leman that doesn't fit in the timeline. Henry Leman of Lancaster Pa wasn't born until around 1830's I believe

[Elnathan]

I'd be leery of taking anything Eckert wrote as gospel truth without something else to back it up. He makes for enjoyable reading and I imagine that he has the broad outlines correct, but you don't know where he got his details or how much he just made up to fill gaps in the historical record.

There is stuff in his books that just doesn't match the historical documents at all.

[mark brier]

I agree, building a piece that I believe would be good and honest  representation of what the rifle may have been is best to stick with the geographical location of northern Virginia, where both Kenton and Butler were from would be much safer in building this piece.... staying within the bounds of that particular "school", but is also still open for personal interpretation within the limits. The Klette rifle in RCA shows both German and English characteristics.

[flinchrocket]

I can't remember where I read about that rifle but I am thinking it said the rifle was made by Henry Lehman. I assumed they meant Henry Leman but that was before his time. So there may have been a gunsmith named Henry Lehman somewhere in the northern Va area.

[54ball]

 Forget the Leman reference. It is dated to the 1960s when the layman and even most gun people thought any side lock longrifle was carried by Paw Paw at Valley Forge.

 Some other candidates....
 The Woodsrunner....
 The Feather Gun.... ((Fred Miller Pattern and Reeves Goering stock and furniture available)
 The Faber Rifle
 The Brass Barreled Rifle

 There is a purported Daniel Boone made Rifle from 1790....seems like a article was in Muzzle Blast about this rifle....Anyhow I saw an interpretation of this rifle at the 2016 Fromt Royal show. I can't recall the builder but he had notebook,with references to the original.

 Lastly do not rule out PA made rifles especially the more proliflic makers like Jacob Dickert.
 Northern Virginia...Winchester
 There is Simon Lauk
 Lauk most likely apprenticed to JP Beck, Becks wife was a Lauk. Lauk may be a little later than mid 1770s.

[mark brier]

54ball, interesting you should say that. This morning I am studying a Early Dickert rifle. The rifle can be found in the book Kentucky Rifles and Pistols. I have tons of pictures and drawings of the rifle when my grandfather and Russ Hamm were working on it. I have made up a lock for building that rifle. As a side note the book says it is a 45 cal, however that is not true. All the notes I have do not say caliber, however as you can see in the picture it is a much larger bore.
Mark Brier

[Arcturus]

A rifle carried into the Cain-tuc-kee lands by Kenton in the early-to-mid 1770s could just as easily have been a Pennsylvania rifle, in fact, I would think it more likely.  Remember, he ran away from Virginia as a teen afraid he'd killed a young man in a fight and ended up on the Pennsylvania frontier before venturing down the Ohio River and into the wilderness.  I believe they were somewhere in western PA around Fort Pitt when Butler outfitted him and gave him the rifle.  He doubtless had several in his early years (certainly lost some of them to Indians and had to replace them), and they could have been Pennsylvania or Virginia guns of that era...

[Arcturus]

I just broke out my copy of The Frontiersman and another Kenton bio and he stopped and worked for Butler at Warm Springs on the Virginia frontier before going up to Pittsburgh, so I suppose that first rifle may well have been a Virginia-made gun.  Though the way goods and guns made their way down the Great Wagon Road, a PA rifle is still not out of the realm of possibility.  Certainly a few years later when acquiring another rifle it could have been made in Virginia or Pennsylvania...