Stain & Finish

[eagle24]

I'm a few weeks out on finish (at least), but I'm making pretty good progress on my rifle the last few nights.  Starting to see a little light at the end of the tunnel.  Hopefully it's not a train!  Anyway, I would like some advice and input on finish options.  My stock is maple with pretty good curl the full length.  This is my first rifle and finishing the stock is one of the more intimidating building processes to me, so I'm looking for something without a high risk of my screwing it up.  I really like the looks of the aqua fortis stains, but not sure I should tackle that on this one.  Course on the flip-side, maybe this is exactly the rifle I should try it on (if you know what I mean).  Anyway, I would really appreciate some input on options that yield a good result and risks/difficulties associated with them.  I have some scrap maple from the stock that I thought I would experiment with.

thanks, Greg

[Roger Fisher]

Greg: There is enough to this subject to fill a fair sized book.

Assuming you are past the grain raising etc.  Some folks like a near black finish and I have seen blondies also.  (Lets face it they are much like women) Anyhooo,
My own idea in a long rifle is I like it to look like a workhorse with patina and not the bland same finish end to end.  Hmmmm what I do is the nitric and heat using a torch being darn carefull not to burn the fine edges.... I like a red undertone so I use colonial red then potassium Permanganate darkening the low spots, i.e under the cheek piece around the lock etc etc.  If you want more red cherry stain will do that but can be overdone in an instant.  (tooooo red) I then use 'real' boiled linseed oil (which can be purchased)  E.K. is one source or was!!  I then rub out the high wear spots around the wrist, lower forearm til I like it.  Beware the linseed oil rags they will catch fire if dropped on a pile.  Out with them!!  Hand rubbing the oil is a nice part of the process little at a time etc. 

This suits me and gives a rifle a warm look.....   This is only my idea of how to do it and many better souls on this board have different and probably better ways

[T*O*F]

Greg,
I am of the opinion that every maple stock should be first stained with aqua fortis to differentiate and set the curl and figure.  It can be very dark, but taken back to any degree you desire.  I have also found that it "hardens" the surface of the wood, particularly if it's a bit soft.  It will bring out any natural colors in the wood by acting on residual minerals present in the soil where the wood was grown.

Once you set the curl, then you can overstain with other compounds to achieve an overall color you are looking for.  Many of these will not give the sharp definition that AF does and will fade over time.

[t.caster]

I agree...use acid on yer first one. Not cause it's easier, it ain't, but you gotta learn how to use it. Don't forget to neutralize it or it will turn green. Then you can use other non-grain raising stains over it if you want a different colors.

[eagle24]

My own idea in a long rifle is I like it to look like a workhorse with patina and not the bland same finish end to end.  Hmmmm what I do is the nitric and heat using a torch being darn carefull not to burn the fine edges.... I like a red undertone so I use colonial red then potassium Permanganate darkening the low spots, i.e under the cheek piece around the lock etc etc.  If you want more red cherry stain will do that but can be overdone in an instant.  (tooooo red) I then use 'real' boiled linseed oil (which can be purchased)  E.K. is one source or was!!  I then rub out the high wear spots around the wrist, lower forearm til I like it.  Beware the linseed oil rags they will catch fire if dropped on a pile.  Out with them!!  Hand rubbing the oil is a nice part of the process little at a time etc.

I like an aged look also.  In fact, I have been thinking about possible using some black paint over the stain and then rubbing most of it off.  Is Nitric Stain the same as Aqua Fortis.  I read many of the aqua fortis threads on the old forum.  Also, I was under the impression that aqua fortis was aqua fortis and there were'nt different colors.  I noticed you referred to "real" boiled linseed oil.  Is it different from the boiled linseed oil from a paint or hardware store?

[Dphariss]

I have a couple of guns around here stained with store bought AF. I have been told it is made with other acids as well, hydrochloric I believe, and it darkens/muddies the grain over time as a result.
Other than this I find AF pretty easy to use. Just be sure to use a baking soda wash after heating.
I heat with a electric paint stripper gun.
USE IT ON LOW.
I use home boiled linseed oil mixed with real turps as an initial coat.
I don't antique guns. I have only done 3 and these were for Hollywood and were not MLs.
Rubbing out the stain generally makes it look like someone rubbed out the stain.
Unless there is some problem I never use an abrasive on stained maple then only on the problem area.
Most synthetic stains/finishes put an unnatural look to the wood until the user learns how to use them and often even then.
People who don't want new looking guns might try USING THEM. The problem here is that a traditional oil /AF finish is pretty durable and may stand up to wear too well for the wannabe types who want a used gun without using it.
Dan

[Roger Fisher]

My own idea in a long rifle is I like it to look like a workhorse with patina and not the bland same finish end to end.  Hmmmm what I do is the nitric and heat using a torch being darn carefull not to burn the fine edges.... I like a red undertone so I use colonial red then potassium Permanganate darkening the low spots, i.e under the cheek piece around the lock etc etc.  If you want more red cherry stain will do that but can be overdone in an instant.  (tooooo red) I then use 'real' boiled linseed oil (which can be purchased)  E.K. is one source or was!!  I then rub out the high wear spots around the wrist, lower forearm til I like it.  Beware the linseed oil rags they will catch fire if dropped on a pile.  Out with them!!  Hand rubbing the oil is a nice part of the process little at a time etc.

I like an aged look also.  In fact, I have been thinking about possible using some black paint over the stain and then rubbing most of it off.  Is Nitric Stain the same as Aqua Fortis.  I read many of the aqua fortis threads on the old forum.  Also, I was under the impression that aqua fortis was aqua fortis and there were'nt different colors.  I noticed you referred to "real" boiled linseed oil.  Is it different from the boiled linseed oil from a paint or hardware store?

Answer is Yes, Yes and Yes.  Home brewed boiled linseed oil has lead in it as a dryer and that is why the store bought is not what you want.  As another poster stated make sure you kill the acid when done by using a baking soda in water wash.  I suggest you lay your hands on Chuck Dixon's book on building I have a hunch you do not have one.  Well worth it's cost of around $25.  He walks you thru the building process....

[Larry Luck]

For what it is worth, this is based on two rifles.

I finished the stock on my most recent project last week using a ferric nitrate solution.  Ferric nitrate is the active ingredient in AF and the chemical can be purchase in crystalline form from chemical supply houses.   This allowed me to avoid having concentrated nitric acid in the house.  The ferric nitrate is pretty stable in crystalline form and you don't have to worry about leaks.

Here is the source that I used:

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/product1.aspx?SID=10&Product_ID=6384

I made a solution of one part ferric nitrate and five parts water, by volume.  Distilled water is probably best to keep unknown chemicals in the water from adulterating the stain.  I used a 3 oz. Dixie cup as a measure and have almost finished with the pint that it made up in November 2005.

I applied the stain liberally with a throw away bristle brush and allowed it to dry a little before heating.  The color before heating will be a sickly greenish-gray and will make you wonder if you thoroughly screwed things up.  I used a heat gun with adjustable output to cook off the stain.  Good ventilation is key. 

The others are right that you need to be careful not to char the surface.  The more applications you use, the deeper the stain will be.  I was satisfied with three applications on both stocks.  Burnishing the stained wood with 0000 steel wool will highlight the curl and lighten the color.

Remember to neutralize the acid.  I use a saturated baking soda/water solution that I brush on until the bubbling stops.  Little nooks and crannies seem to collect the stain and will bubble more than the surface.

I used Formby's Tung Oil Finish (high gloss) applied with a rag a little at a time and rubbed in well on both rifles.  Probably eight or so applications.  Rubbed out with 000 steel wool with more oil.  Then Renaissance wax.

Hope this helps.

Larry Luck

[KentSmith]

All great advice above. 

Whisker your stock sufficently to remove all the wood fibres that were created by your raspd, files, etc. 

I put on 3 applications of stain (4 parts water + 1 part nitric acid + about 3-4" of old barbed wire) sometimes called aqua fortis but real aqua fortis is nitric acid. 

I rub down the stain all over to burnish with 0000 steel wool, then rub hard with a clean flannel wrag to make the wood shine. 

I finish with my own oil varnish - good coldpressed linseed oil boiled with some lead carbonate and various resins.  I put the first coat, cut with turpentine, on heavy and wipe off.  Dry 24 hrs.  next coat very llight, if I can see the varnish pool or streak, it's too much.  I put 6-8 coats of finish on - then wax.  Rubbing is the word.  A lot of rubbing.  I allow 2 weeks for stain and finish minimum.

[Dphariss]

Nitric Acid stain need not be particularly acidic, the liquid becomes a carrier for the iron dissolved in it.
Store bought linseed oil is really just paint thinner and is not the linseed oil gunsmiths made and used.
Its not really boiled they add driers and call it boiled.
To make decent boiled oil you need to heat it with some calcium carbonate thrown in. Some semi crushed limestone works well 1/4 cup of chips and chunks. I add a little Japan drier tablespoon or a little less to the gallon. Old deep fat friers will do to heat the oil, leave it on high for 30 minutes to an hour after it starts to smoke. For thicker oil heat several times.
Oil will darken and thicken and will dry much faster. I cook half once and half about 3 times.
Lead is not really needed. It helps with drying in high humidity and may add some color but the toxic forms, oxide/acetate are what is needed.

Dan