Author Topic: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.  (Read 7297 times)

Offline Rolf

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I've e just finished my third Kentucky pistol practice stock. I'm happy with the shape of the stock and reasonable satisfied with the side plate moldings. The moldings are a bit high and next time I'll lengthen the tail of the panels.




I've got to practice more making one piece muzzle caps. I plan to make a practice forestock for that. Since I'm using straight barrel, I can due muzzle on both ends of the forestock. 4-5 muzzle caps, and I'll hopefully get the hang of it.

I also have to start on making the butt caps. I plan to use a lead swagging block and the same technique I use on silver bowls,  cup, etc. When i get these Right ,I'll start on the curly maple blanks.

I have not been able to draw a design for terminating the ramrod molding on the lower forestock. I'd be grateful for any suggestions.

I have also not been able to draw a simple tang carving I like. I'd like to do something like a shell or a beaver tail. I'd be grateful for suggestions.


Best regards
Rolfkt
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 12:01:50 AM by Rolfkt »

George F.

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2009, 12:12:26 AM »
I offer critique in one direction. I can't believe you made all those pistol stocks, and call them practice stocks. I can not offer any comment on your work however. To me they ALL look good.   ...Geo.

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2009, 01:31:12 AM »
Rolftk,

I salute your quest for perfection, but man, it looks to me as though you could darn near have 4 absolutely respectable working pistols by now.

I'd go for the real thing.  If your not happy with the result, sell it and make another.

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2009, 02:23:32 AM »
Rolftk - I see no reason either, for you to continue to make practice pieces.  Your first effort will be a complete success, and they'll get better as you build more.
There are a couple of observations I would like to suggest though.  First, you CANNOT use Phillips screws on a firearm of any kind, and even on a practice piece, seeing one made me grab my mouth.  Use Robertson head screws!!
Just kidding about the Robertson...only slotted screws please.  Your trigger plate should be held to the stock on its forward end by a machine screw coming down from the barrel tang.  the rear end can have a slotted head screw countersunk into it's aft end.  Now you have a hole with a countersink in your trigger plate that will need to be filled or replaced, so that you can drill and tap it for the tang screw.

The panels around the lock have nice lines.  But I think I am seeing a flat or facet where they transition into the ground of the stock.  I think this should be a perpendicular fine line on an American pistol/rifle.  Also the transition seems soft and mellow but not crisp, which is preferable.

The stock itself has a most pleasing architecture, and lines of a good shooter.  Bury the trigger guard extension and the rail until they are flush with the wood.  On the extension, just the bevel should protrude from the wood;  the top flat above that.
For inspiration on carving design, there are hundreds of books depicting originals.  Since I don't have originals lying all over the shop, that's where I go for education.

You are going to end up with a most worthy pistol or pair of them.  Building a pistol is "X" amount of work, but building a pair is not "2X", as you probably have discovered by now.  Keep us posted....
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

George F.

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 02:33:41 AM »
Rolf, that last picture , is that a shell carving? I had some trouble with shell carvings. Two years ago, well almost 2 years ago anyway, I went to Colonial Williamsburg,VA. It was a rainy day, but I look some pictures of shell carvings. I have seen carvings with all concave details in the shell, and have seen shell details with concave alternating with convex carving details in the shell design with a narrow flat  detail in between them. They both look very appealing when executed well. Your work is very good, better than mine. Trying to find books about ornimental rocco designs are hard to find. Usually out of print, which translates to alot more money than I'm willing to part with. I don't really care for the lock panel with the fan design. Personally I would lay out my lock panel normally, then add the fan/shell carving in it.john Armstrong did a rifle with this detail with an arcanthias leaf in it. very appealing. Also, I found it difficult getting a entry pipe carving incorporated in the forestock moulding when it's close to the lock panel. Doesn't leave alot of room for a graceful flowing design.  ...Geo.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 02:37:20 AM by George F. »

Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2009, 07:22:58 AM »
I agree with all those who say that is some amazing practice.  If my practice stock comes out anythnig like those I am going to stain it, oil it, brag about it and say I meant for it to look like that. 
Awesome stuff. 

Coryjoe

Offline Rolf

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2009, 10:36:08 PM »
Thank you all for your kind comments.

Taylor, thanks for the advice. I'll use slotted screws on the next stock. I'll also inlet the triggergard deeper and try to keep the panels crisper. It's darn easy to round edges when using sand paper.

George, the last picture was my so far best atempt to draw a shell pattren. Not happy with the results. I think part of the problem is that it's to big for the wrist area. Got to do some more dodeling on paper.

Best regards

Rolfkt

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009, 10:56:59 PM »
Rofkt, have you books on Kentucky pistols? with pictures? There are so many good examples in books. Maybe you don't have the books where you are?

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Dave B

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2009, 11:03:53 PM »
Rolft,
I think the guys are right on with their observations. I think to it is helful to use a firmer backed sand paper when dealing with the carving to keep the crisp edge that you see on the better builders work. It is easy to let things get alittle to rounded over. With regard to the shell pattern. You should look at getting the small book called English pistols it normally sells for around $10-12 bucks and has some great picutres of shell carving. You need to be careful though for the shell you find on the english pistol is an early feature from the Georgian period typically not found on late golden age Kentucky pistols.
This is a typical golden age detail found on several original pistols at the tang.

Dave Blaisdell

Offline Rolf

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2009, 11:26:30 PM »
Rofkt, have you books on Kentucky pistols? with pictures? There are so many good examples in books. Maybe you don't have the books where you are?


Nobody sells books on this subject in Norway. I've bougth  books from TOW.
Mostly books on longrifles. The only book I've found on kentucky pistols is "Thoughts on the american flintlock pistol"  by Dyke.  The pictures are poor in detail and hardly show any tang carvings. Do you know any book with good pictures of high grade american pistols?

Best regards

Rolfkt

Offline Rolf

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2009, 11:39:02 PM »
Rolft,
I think the guys are right on with their observations. I think to it is helful to use a firmer backed sand paper when dealing with the carving to keep the crisp edge that you see on the better builders work. It is easy to let things get alittle to rounded over. With regard to the shell pattern. You should look at getting the small book called English pistols it normally sells for around $10-12 bucks and has some great picutres of shell carving. You need to be careful though for the shell you find on the english pistol is an early feature from the Georgian period typically not found on late golden age Kentucky pistols.
This is a typical golden age detail found on several original pistols at the tang.


Thanks for the sound advice and the tang picture. I think I've seen pictures on the internet of pistol with that type of carving combine with a shell. Is that traditional or is it a modern design.

Best regards

Rolfkt

Offline Dave B

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 06:15:25 AM »
Rolft,
Heres an example of a tang carving I did using a fan in conjunction with a similar element with scrolls. This is a Virgina /York detail I saw done on a Flintriflesmith piece if I remember correctly. I have seen it done with just wire inlay or with insice carving. Both work very nicely. This is a combination of the two.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2009, 06:21:23 AM »
Rolfkt,

Check out this link to Gary's website.  This pistol, and some of his other work may give you some ideas.  I sure like his work.

http://www.flintriflesmith.com/GunshopEraGuns/iron_mounted_pistol.htm

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell

Offline Dave B

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2009, 07:54:37 AM »
I love that pistol of Gary's, he had it at the Gunsmithing classes at Bowling green by the NMLRA. Those pictures don't do it justice. The tang carving is more to the point than mine. Heres one of my shell carvings done on a Georgian pistol I am working on.
Dave Blaisdell

Offline J. Talbert

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Re: Finsihed practice stock 3, need advice designing carvving.
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2009, 10:44:54 PM »
Dave,

Nothing wrong with that carving!

Jeff
There are no solutions.  There are only trade-offs.”
Thomas Sowell